HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Min 1990-06-06
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CITY OF SEAL BEACH
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES OF JUNE 6, 1990
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Planning CommlSSlon was
called to order on June 6, 1990 at 7:30 p.m. in City Councll
Chambers by Chairman Sharp.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by CommlSSloner Flfe.
ROLL CALL
Present:
Chalrman Sharp
Commissloners Flfe, McCurdy, Dahlman
Also
Present:
Barry Curtis, Admln. Asst., Dev. Srvcs. Dept.
Absent:
Lee Whittenberg, Director, Dev. Srvcs. Dept.
Joan Fillmann, Exec. Secretary, Dev. Srvcs. Dept.
Chairman Sharp introduced Dr. Anton Dahlman, appointed to the
Planning Commisslon for Dlstrict 3. ThlS is Dr. Dahlman's flrst
meeting.
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. MINUTES OF MAY 16, 1990
Mr. Whittenberg requested the Mlnutes of the May 16, 1990
Planning Commisslon meetlng be removed from the Consent
Calendar so they could be reviewed by the Cl ty Attorney.
Chairman Sharp sald they were belng removed for corrections.
2. MINOR PLAN REVIEW 5-90
249 FIFTH STREET
Staff Report
Mr. ,curtis dell vered the staff report. ThlS lS a request by
applicant, Mary Sokoloff, to add a thlrty-six square foot extension
to the second floor deck and a twelve square foot addition to the
second story of a non-conformlng property at 249 Fifth Street.
Commlssion Comments
The Commlssion asked what was under the requested extenslon? Mr.
curtis said a rottlng roof with leakage problems lS being
substituted wlth a deck.
Page 2 - Plann1ng Comm1ssion M1nutes of June 6, 1990
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MOTION by McCurdy; SECOND by F1fe to approve Plan Review 5-90
subject to three condit1ons set forth in the staff report.
MOTION CARRIED: 4 - 0
AYES: Fife, McCurdy, Dahlman, Sharp
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3. MINOR PLAN REVIEW 6-90
1313 SEAL WAY
staff Report
Mr. Curt1s del1vered the staff report on Minor Plan Review 6-90
Wh1Ch is a request by the appl1cant, John G. Matheson on behalf of
the owner, Jean Ashmead, to extend the second floor bedrooms over
the eX1sting f1rst floor den of a non-conform1ng single fam1ly home
at 1313 Seal Way. The property is non-conform1ng due to inadequate
setbacks and one parking space is sub-standard. Staff's 1nspect1on
found several sub-standard Code 1tems that must be brought up to
standard.
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Commiss1on Comments
Mr. F1fe asked about Cond1t1on #5 Wh1Ch have an 1rregular r1se and
run. Mr. Curt1s said he could not speculate as to how they were
bU1lt except to say that at the time they were built the C1ty'S
inspection process may not have been that strict.
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Mr. Fife asked 1f 1t was true that at some p01nt backward 1n time
the C1ty didn't have good records as to what was built with perm1ts
and what was the approximate date the C1ty started keeping better
records? Mr. Curtis said that pr10r to 1970 the city's Build1ng-
Planning Department records were "h1t and miss" --- before the
1950's the records are "kind of shoddy" --- after 1970 the records
are good on most propert1es. The Commission asked Mr. Curt1s about
a 1979 C1ty-wide survey and would it be correct to say that after
this survey the C1ty is "legally and formally in charge of
everything?" Mr. curtis said this 1S the rule but there are some
1nstances where things have sllpped through or been bootlegged in
and are discovered at a later date. Dr. Dahlman asked if someone
has a non-conform1ng house ("dat1ng from before then") and the
Comm1ssion approves a 10% or less than 10% remodel, 1S that
construed as approval of the prev10us work done on the place?
Mr. Curt1s repl1ed staff analyses of a request for alterations to
non-conforming structure 1nvolves rev1ew1ng building permits and
any other plann1ng actions having occurred on the property. The
site 1S inspected by Plann1ng staff and Building Inspectors to see
1f 1t appears any add1t1ons were built to Code. Mr. curtis sa1d
"somet1mes we do have to speculate on whether it was permitted".
Once we do these Minor Plan Rev1ews, 1f staff feels 1t is a legally
non-conforming structure, then from that point on those additions
become grandfathered in as legally non-conforming. We are doing
Page 3 - Plann1ng Commiss1on Minutes of June 6, 1990
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the grandfather1ng here. Mr. Dahlman asked staff why they
recommending tempered glass w1ndows on the west exposure?
curtis said it 1S a UBC requ1rement due to the height of
windows from grade.
are
Mr.
the
Mrs. Jean Ashmead * 1313 Seal Way. Seal Beach
Mrs. Ashmead said the west side glass windows were 1nstalled in
1962 and they have weathered the 1982 storm and all out
earthquakes. She said she understood the eight cond1 t10ns but
asked about the smoke detectors. She said they could not hear the
smoke detectors if they went off on the first floor and would llke
them upstairs only.
Mr. Curt1s said current codes requ1re that fire alarms/smoke
detectors be installed throughout all Ilveable floor areas. He
added, most of the requ1rements to be brought up to Code are of a
safety nature and staff didn't feel r1ght 1n passing them by when
they could be corrected in conjunction with this addition. Dr.
Dahlman asked 1f this was a very large amount of w1ndow space that
would be of great expense to them? Mr. Curt1s sa1d the w1ndows
would obviously not be 1nexpens1ve but he d1dn't know the exact
cost. The heaV1er windows are necessary because of the1r height
from the floor; it 1S a UBC requ1rement.
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John Matheson - No address glven.
Mr. Matheson said he is employed as contractor John Matheson's
estimator. It would appear the whole w1ndow has to be changed to
tempered glass. The way th1S cond1tion is wr1tten is confusing
and we would llke it clarified to f1nd out 1f the dimension is
correct for using tempered glass 1n that first area but not hav1ng
to change the glass above because 1t's plain plate glass.
Mr. curtis said Planning Dept. and Building Dept. staff would be
glad to re1nspect the property to clarify exactly what needs to be
done to minimally meet the UBC requirements. Staff does not 1ntend
to requ1re the applicant to go beyond UBC requirements. Mr. Fife
noted the UBC requ1rements are to keep person(s) from tripping or
walking thru a patio door or a low sill window; tempered glass just
explodes 1nto bit pieces versus jagged pieces.
MOTION by Fife; SECOND by Dahlman to approve Minor Plan Review
6-90 with all conditions described in the staff recommendatlons
except Condition #6, to be immediately effective and part of the
approval process. A certificate of Occupancy shall not be issued
until such time as staff, wi th the assistance of the Plannlng
Commission, has resolved the requirement of Condition 16 under the
lnterpretations of the UBC.
MOTION CARRIED: 4 - 0
AYES: Fife, McCurdy, Sharp, Dahlman
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Page 4 - Plann1ng Commiss1on M1nutes of June 6, 1990
4.
MINOR PLAN REVIEW 7-90
1605 SEAL WAY
staff Report
Barry curtis del1vered the staff report on Minor Plan Review #7-
90. It 1S a request by applicants/owners, Andrew Schne1der and
D1ane Frolov, to enlarge an eX1sting third floor, 1ncluding a new
bathroom, not to exceed the maximum 10% addition to a non-
conform1ng resident1al structure, and exterior remodel to an
eX1sting non-conform1ng structure. This structure is non-
conform1ng due to several factors, one being the rear setback of
the garage, the front unit presently had a third story not allowed
by Code on a 25' lot, over dens1ty with three un1ts, less park1ng
than requ1red by Code. Staff recommends approval to square off the
dormer roof as well as the aesthet1c mod1f1cations to the
bU1lding's facade and the third story bathroom.
Commiss1on Comments
Mr. Fife asked about squaring off the A-frame style roof. Is th1s
to be squared at only the area involv1ng the addition? Or squaring
the roof for the ent1re building? Mr. Curt1s said there's an A-
frame roof at the front and rear of the third story. This would
create a rectangular third story. The he1ght of the presently
squared off portion is 28 feet.
Andrew Schne1der * No address glven
Mr. Schne1der said he and his w1fe are currently in escrow on 1605
Seal Way. His appeal, he said, 1S based on what 1S the spirit of
the law versus what 1S the letter of the law. They feel their plan
meets what the spir1t this community wants and would increase the
qual1ty of their and their son's life by not 1ncreasing rentals or
automobiles. The concern of creating an extra un1t and putt1ng in
sprinklers 1nstead of an extra staircase is f1ne with them. The
sta1rway was put 1n so they could conform to the C1ty'S Code.
Mr. Schneider sa1d the plan would lower the existing roof Ilne by
a couple of feet.
Virgil smith - Contractor * No address glven
Mr. smith said they would llke to have a standard eight foot
ce1ling. W1th )Olsts, 1t would be about n1ne feet. Code allows
a 7'6" ce1ling.
The Commiss1on and staff had discussion on the height of th1S
bU1lding.
Frank Pad1lla * Present Owner of 1605 Seal Way
Mr. Padilla said it was rebuilt in 1977 and it was the f1rst house
on Seal Way to have steel added to the front of the build1ng.
There is a beam three feet down, solid cement, in front of the
house w1th three steel beams going up to the th1rd story welded to
steel and com1ng back through the house. It is des1gned and built
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Page 5 - Plannlng commi slon Mlnutes of June 6, 1990
wlth Coastal Commission approval at that time for a third story.
He didn't do the two AJframes at the tlme because he didn't have
the money. The first Ifloor is a slab. He doesn't know if hlS
origlnal structural dra~lngs are in the Buildlng Dept. flles. He
has an old copy of the engineerlng section that was stamped.
Mr. Sharp asked Mr. curfiS lf there was any legal reason why they
should not do their r model except it is making 1 t more non-
conforming? Mr. Curti said two lssues are brought up by that
question: (1) it's b~en the long-tlme policy of staff and the
CommlSSlon to not incre se a non-conformity. Sectlon 28-2407 does
allow structural modifl ations. The Commlssion's discretion would
determlne lf something hat lS non-conformlng wlth the Code can be
allowed. (2) Staff w uld argue that it needs a varlance to go
forward with the additi n. Mr. Flfe asked how the 10% of allowable
floor area calculate 0 t with three stories? Mr. Curtls said it
was calculated on the to-story Ilmlt and 375 square feet could be
added. The approximate 400 square feet is slightly over the 10%.
Mr. Smlth said the bu Iding's footprlnt lS not belng changed;
existing space is bein enclosed. An lnterlor designer has been
hlred to develop a des~gn would have a good aesthetic lmpact on
the communlty. Mr. Filfe asked Mr. Schneider if he intended to
rent? Mr. Schneider satd they will rent out the two unlts that are
being rented out curren lYe They wlll live there on the top unlt.
Mr. Schneider said he w uld accept a prohibitlon on an observation
deck. The third floor balcony will be partially enclosed.
Frank Padilla * 1605 Seal Wa
The balcony has leaked from the first wlnter the house was built.
The contractor went ban rupt. He said it's difflcult to plug leaks
on Seal Way.
Pete Arnold * 1316 Seal
Mr. Arnold said he had of questlons and concerns that he and
his wlfe Barbara compil d plus pictures. H1S dlstributed these to
the CommlSSlon. He has know Mr. Padilla over 20 years and has
lived here for 40 years. His questions are:
1. The side parking may be over the property line, lnto the
neighbor's yard. (Picture #1). The single family dwelling
next to Mr. padlll 's dwelling is off-center. His concern is
where the propert line is and could lt be used for non-
conforming parkin ?
2. The zero-lot line on the garage (Plcture #2) shows that the
garage building i li terally on the property line on the
Opposlte side.
On May 19, 1976 when the proposal was made for the
reconstruction of the third floor. H1S concern (reading from
the staff report t that time) "the balcony added dormer
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Page 6 - Planning Commi sion Minutes of June 6, 1990
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w1ndows on both sires of a sta1rwell to provide headroom and
additional 11ght for an access to a balcony/attic.
The parking est1maIe of the 6' on the back versus 12' concerns
h1m because a car ~annot be parked 1n SlX feet. It hangs over
the alley f1re lane. There is a two-car covered garage with
non-conforming tan em park1ng on the slde.
5. If the cars are pa ked on the slde of the garage, may 1t not
be accessible on e1ther side of the bU1lding whether the
property 11ne 1S correct or not by emergency vehicles or the
f1re department. There would be no access from the rear of
that build1ng.
The bU1lding perm t to remodel the rear apartment after the
1983 storm is not 1n eX1stence. staff told h1m there was no
permit on file. A that time the upstairs floor was enlarged
and sllding doubl doors were added. A sloped roof was made
1nto a roof deck. Now that the roof deck can be enclosed,
there could be tw bedrooms at the back.
The morator1um dog houses 1S in effect but a roof access
looks like it has ecome a bedroom Wh1Ch is now to be expanded
into a bathroom also.
6.
What happens to th single family dwell1ngs on e1ther slde of
the bU1lding when they dec1de to build a 25' h1gh building?
[NOTE: FOLLOWING TRANSCRIPTION FROM COMCAST VIDEO TAPE]
Mr. Curt1s said staff s aware this build1ng has non-conformities
and that staff lives wi h those unt11 such t1me as 1t'S demol1shed.
Staff was aware of this when the staff report recommendat1ons were
made.
Sh Kr del - 1633 Seal Wa
Mr. Krydel sa1d he is Ian owner on Seal Way but represented his
mother, who 11ves w1thih 100' feet of 1605 Seal Way. He stated he
feels approval of thisl expansion opens a Pandora's box --- that
ne1ghbors who have a t~o-story apartment build1ng could apply for
an 1ncrease from two td three floors. He felt th1S expans10n was
1nconsistent with what-Ithe c1tizens of Seal Beach want - Wh1Ch is
downzon1ng and more re~ldential buildings.
Mr. Sharp asked staff 10 clar1fy if that area 1S zoned for three
stories. Mr. curtis r~plied that Mr. Krydel was referr1ng to the
unit next to his houselwh1ch is an apartment build1ng with 11 or
12 un1ts. Theoret1cally, as the Code is presently wr1tten, that
owner could apply for a third story expansion. Staff would
recommend aga1nst 1t.
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Page 7 - Plannlng Comml slon Mlnutes of June 6, 1990
Mr. Flfe asked staff a what time was that area zoned for third
storles? Mr. Curtls re lied he dldn't belleve third storles were
allowed, even back ln 1 77.
Frank padllla * 1605 sell Way
Mr. Padllla sald he sta ted to bUlld ln 1976 but didn't get all the
permlts approved until 977. Three storles were not allowed back
then. The permit was 'ssued to work on the new/rebuilt buildlng
and was not to include ncreasing the roof's helght or the number
of rooms. He noted p rt of the Schnelder' s applicatlon is to
rebulld the orlglnal ho see He said there has always been two or
three rooms upstalrs. He said they applied for a thlrd story
addltion, and applied 0 rebulld the old house at the eXlsting
helght and work on the duplex. The back house is the original
garage.
Mr. Sharp asked Mr. Pad lla how he got three unlts if they weren't
legal? Mr. Padllla re lied that the Coastal Commlssion said the
house to be worked on ~~as considered a legal duplex and the back
house was non-conformln due to the site, the garage belng built
on the property Ilne a d being under square footage for a unit.
The Coastal Commlsslon slaid he couldn't do anything except repalrs.
The permlt was granted fbn the basis that he not work on the back
house. The house now i the same height as when he bought it. In
1976 lt was a legal dup ex with a non-conforming thlrd unit.
Mr. curtis said there. Ire three legal unlts on thlS property but
only two are conformln;l Nothlng was bootlegged In.
[END OF TRANSCRIPTION F~OM VIDEO TAPE]
D1Scussion ensued regarl'lng a third unlt. It was noted that ln
1976 lt was a legal %Plex with a non-conforming third unlt.
Permlts were not obtalntd until 1977. Mr. Curtls said there are
three legal unlts on th property. There were three legal units
but only two of WhlCh w re conforming; nothing was bootlegged in.
Now, two of the units a e non-conformlng because only one would be
permitted.
Mr. Flfe sald he felt h
previously understand a
thlS tonlght. The appli
escrow and to buy the
continuance. Mr. Shar
study.
was inundated with information he dld not
d he was not ready to vote for or against
ant sald he and hlS wife wlll contlnue the
property and he would not object to a
said the Commisslon needs more time to
MOTION by Fife; SECOND
7-90 to the June 20, 19
Dahlman to contlnue Minor Plan Review
Planning Commission meeting.
MOTION CARRIED: 4 - 0
AYES: Fife, McCurdy, Dahlman, Sharp
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Page 8 - Planning Commission Minutes of June 6, 1990
PUBLIC HEARINGS
5. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 7-90
12121 SEAL BEACH BOULEVARD
RESOLUTION # 1582
staff Report
Mr. curtis delivered the staff report. The appl1cant, Craft Master
Sign Corporation, on behalf of the owner, Rossmoor Business Center,
is request1ng to amend the orig1nal condit1ons of approval of CUP
8-85. The applicant is asking to replace the Rossmoor Business
Center identif1cation sign w1th a new slgn integrating a center
identificat10n slgn, a theatre identification slgn and a theatre
1nformational marquee. Staff recommends approval thru the adoption
of Resolution No. 1582 and subJect to three cond1t1ons.
Commiss1on Comments
Mr. Sharp spoke to Condit1on #3, saying Old Town which required one
type of signage, Pac1fic Coast Highway which requ1res a different
type of signage due to high speed traffic, Le1sure World Wh1Ch is
completely d1fferent. H1S recommendation was to remove Cond1tion
# 3 and to ask the staff (wi th1n the next few months) to do a
complete study of the different types of signage regulations that
we would need for these different areas and come back to the
Plann1ng Commiss1on with a recommendation for a change 1n our
regulat10ns so that we can better deal with signage. Mr. Fife
agreed with and supported Cha1rman Sharp's suggestion adding we
need more flex1b1lity 1n the sign codes to be more responsive to
1ndividual circumstances.
MOTION by Fife; SECOND by Sharp that in accordance with Chairman
Sharp's suggestion that we eliminate Condition #3 of the staff's
recommendation and open the Public Hearing on the remaining two
Conditions.
MOTION CARRIED: 4 - 0
AYES: Fife, McCurdy, Sharp, Dahlman
Public Hearing Opened
Dottie Phill1P * Manager of Rossmoor Center
Ms. Phillip said she disagreed w1th the 98 feet but felt "it's
beS1de the p01nt now". She p01nted out that when the signage study
1S done to please consider Rossmoor Center as unique. She sa1d
that under 1deal condit1ons there 1sn't enough room for everyone.
There was a time when the City forced Rossmoor Center to rebU1ld
signage at tremendous expense and the City dictated the mater1als
to be used. The Center has not amortized that cost yet. Staff
sa1d there are 9 large pylon signs and Center ident1fication sign,
the F&M Bank sign and one other sign. Mr. Sharp said no business
1n the Center is to put a slgn up unless it is cleared with the
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Page 9 - Plannlng Commission Minutes of June 6, 1990
Center and the City. There lS control over what goes up. Ms.
PhilllP said no more towers wlll be added. Mr. Sharp explained
this is a unique situation because they have the theatres wlth
seven theatres wi thln itself and the movies must be dlsplayed. Mr.
curtis added the Commisslon has the right to make discretionary
actlons concernlng a planned sign program however lt would not be
bound by subsequent requests to enlarge any other slgnsi a
precedent would not be set.
Leonard Wllson * 12121 Seal Beach Blvd.
Mr. Wllson said he is the co-chalrman of the Seal Beach Chamber of
Commerce Legislative Committee. The Commlttee has studled this
program for two weeks and they reached the same conclusion on
Condition #3. The vlsual lmprovement and additional identificatlon
will result in increased trafflC and sales volume. He asked why
the Center has been put in an adversarial position --- why has that
POllCY been adopted and sustained for a long period of time? For
example, small requests for tenant improvements have been met with
an adversarlal attl tude on the part of Cl ty staff. Mr. Sharp
indicated it's not because the request comes from Rossmoor Center
but rather that each request goes through all the same steps. The
Commisslon has no hOStlllty toward the Center.
MOTION by Sharp i SECOND by McCurdy to approve Conditional Use
Permit 7-90 by the adoption of Resolution No. 1582 by omitting all
references to Condition #3 but with the first two conditions
remaining:
3. Wi thin four ( 4 ) years of the date of approval of
condi tional Use Permit 7-90, the Rossmoor Business Center
shall submit plans for a new planned sign program to the
ci ty for Planning commission approval. Said planned sign
program shall attempt to bring the center's signage more
into conformity Wl th current design standards and the
City's zoning ordinance. (CONDITION DELETED)
MOTION CARRIED: 4 - 0
AYES: Fife, McCurdy, Dahlman, Sharp
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SCHEDULED MATTERS
There were no scheduled matters.
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Bruce Stark * Seal Beach
Mr. Stark noted the alley behlnd the new houses faclng Electric
Avenue where large posts have been placed. Mr. Stark feels it's
impossible to make a turn down the alley coming off Seal Beach
Boulevard. He recommended the City look at allowing cement filled
steel posts belng placed in the alleys.
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Page 10 - Plann1ng Comm1ssion M1nutes of June 6, 1990
Mr. Sharp asked Mr. curtis to reV1ew Planning Department records
and Fire Department and to report back to the Comm1ssion on this
1ssue.
STAFF CONCERNS
5. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 6-90
490 PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAY
STAFF MEMO TO COMMISSION
Mr. Curt1s presented a staff report to the Comm1ssion regarding the
sale of beer and W1ne in conjunct1on with the sale of gasol1ne at
the ARCO MP&G Tune-up Center at 490 Pac1fic Coast Highway. Staff
has ser10US concerns regarding the sale or beer and wine 1n
conjunction with the sale of gasol1ne. Staff will provide the
commission W1 th a more detailed report at the June 20, 1990
meeting.
Mr. Curt1s ind1cated that the first meeting 1n July 1S on July 4th,
Independence Day. The Comm1ssion can table that meeting or it can
be rescheduled. Mr. Sharp recommended the Commission cancel the
meeting of July 4th and resume on 1tS regular session of July 18th.
No formal motion was made.
COMMISSION CONCERNS
The Commission Concerns were transcribed verbatim from the tape at
the request of the Director of Development Services.
F1fe:
I wasn't able to stay up late enough --- what happened
on Monday night regarding Mola?
Sharp:
The Public Hearing is continued for one week - to next
Monday n1ght.
F1fe:
The possibil1ty remains that Mola could come trailing
back to the Planning Commission st111?
Sharp:
Yes, that poss1bility is st111 there and if it is, I
think I'm going hunting!
F1fe:
Do you th1nk we'll survive Mola?
Sharp:
(Laughing) While I'm on the a1r I'm not going to make any
predict1ons.
Fife:
Along those lines, one of the things I've noticed is that
the seismic risks of the construction on the Mola project
site and spec1fically the Alquist-Pr1olo Spec1al Stud1es
legislation seems to be a tOp1C of great concern. I've
read that code and I have the pamphlet of the Department
of Conservation and Division of Mines and Geology on
Page 11 - Planning Commisslon Mlnutes of June 6, 1990
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Sharp:
Fife:
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Sharp:
Flfe:
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that. It seems to me that lf that lS gOlng to be an item
of that much concern and lnterest on a proJect of Mola's
scope I fail to see why lt isn't simllarly a matter of
concern when you have a person bUlldlng one or two houses
ln thlS Clty. We've never taken lt up before.
They checked to flnd out about havlng a thlrd seismlc
person or company (geologlst) do a study lndependently
and they got the recommendation from the powers that be.
I couldn't tell you who it was. They had three
organizatlons that they recommended. Two of them are
already working for Mola. So, they had not declded.
They are gettlng a thlrd oplnion and hope to have it in
tlme for the meeting. It Just remalns to be seen what
wlll happen when the tlme comes. He hasn't glven them
an extension, the 13th is the deadllne. If they do not
take actlon by the 13th lt's automatlcally approved.
My concern is (you know, I thlnk) that there is some
argument that the Newport-Inglewood fault ln that area,
the dlsplacement zone, is as wide as perhaps 5,000 feet
and it's about 3/10 of a mlle from the Pollce Statlon to
the property line of the houses on the Hill. If that
were really true, the Pollce Statlon, WhlCh is an
important emergency buildlng, was built wlthin the
displacement zone and lf we're gOlng to take that
positlon it seems to me we should start considering
requiring similar geology reports when someone wants to
come ln and bUlld one house in the same area.
I still thlnk where the 5,000 square feet came in was the
gentlemen, the expert from Mola made the statement that
the ground movement from this lf lt was generated here
for approximately 5,000 feet in both directions would be
approxlmately the same. So lt wouldn't make any
difference if you were 100 feet from it or whether you
were 400 feet from lt - you would get approximately the
same ground action. I thought that was his answer.
Someone picked up on the 5,000 feet and said that was the
width of it but I don't understand all I know about It.
I heard those remarks too. I understood what he was
saying and I lntuitively agree with hlm that not having
2 - 3 feet dlsplacement at each and every locatlon over
5,000 feet --- because you're talking about 10,000 or
100,000 feet of displacement. There's been a lot of
dlScussion about llquefactlon risk in that potentlal
development area and lf you look at the maps of the
Department of Mines and Geology all of downtown Seal
Beach from the Paclflc Coast Highway toward the Ocean lS
high liquefactlon risk zone. I don't recall we've ever
Page 12 - Planning Commiss1on M1nutes of June 6, 1990
~ raised liquefact10n risks when someone comes in to build
two or three homes or SlX homes or ten homes 1n the Old
Town area.
McCurdy: A great deal of this is based upon what could happen.
Let's take an actual case which did happen. Liquefact10n
- very much so. MeX1CO C1ty quake. That quake was 230
miles away --- not 5,000 feet away or some such f1gure -
-- 230 off the coast and Mexico City which 1S on a bad
llquefaction basis, settled, broke, buildings came down,
tremendous loss of life. So making a zone 5,000 feet
1sn't going to do you any good anyway because an
earthquake along the Newport-Inglewood fault could very
well cause a major llquefact10n in other parts of Orange
County.
F1fe:
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Sharp:
Fife:
~
Whatever, you know, our various decisional bod1es thought
might be the seismic risk I have trouble W1 th
focusing all of that safety concern just on one site
where perhaps two to three hundred homes are being
considered and 19noring it when we've got twenty bU1lders
build1ng ten homes apiece. It seems to me when you get
200 homes whether 1t'S built by 20 bU1lders 10 at a time
or one builder two hundred at a time it e1ther 1S or is
not an issue of concern. Whatever the dec1sion 1S 1t
should be uniformly applied throughout the City wherever
the seismic r1sks are the same. And according to the
Division of Mines and Geology it's v1rtually the same,
at least from a llquefact10n potential, up on Mola and
right down here 1n Old Town - make no dist1nction.
College Park East is rated as medium. But the Mola slte
and all of downtown 1S rated as high.
That's Just like the latest San Francisco earthquake.
My daughter Ilves in Foster City and 1n Foster C1ty 1f
you go down two feet you'd probably h1t water and 1t's
all filled. The whole town is filled --- there was
nothing there for them to bU1ld homes. They had
practically no structural damage. It moved the furniture
six 1nches away from the walls in my daughter's house.
Everything in the house was moved but they had absolutely
no structural damage whatever because it was bU1lt to
withstand it and 1t is on what it was required to be on
for the k1nd of land 1t was built on. So all those
th1ngs can be mitigated as long as they know what they're
doing.
It seems to me that 1f the ult1mate decis10n (is) that
those th1ngs can be, will be and are mitigated on that
slte, sim1lar requirements ought to be la1d on building
within the areas of the City which are also subject to
.
.
.'
Page 13 - Planning Commisslon Mlnutes of June 6, 1990
llquefaction risks. It seems llke we focus these just
on large developments and I don't thlnk I've seen a
geology report on any of the smaller developments that
have come through in the two years I've been on here.
I don't understand why we should only require lt on big
developments and ignore it on others.
Sharp:
Are there any other concerns?
ADJOURNMENT
Chairman Sharp adjourned the meeting at 9:41 p.m.
These Minutes were transcribed from an audio tape by the secretary;
the secretary was not present at thlS meetlng.
Respectfully Submltted,
~~~~cv-,~
Jo n Fillmann, Executive Secretary
Department of Development SerVlces
***
These Mlnutes are tentatlve and are subject to the approval of the
Planning Commisslon.
***
The Planning Commisslon Minutes of June 6, 1990 were approved on
q4 \t 1990.
~
~;'::;1-f
.
.
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SE.Al BEACrl R:CREATIO~, DLPAF,THE:,I
E'ISTl\G FA'!\~~S \.:ITHlt, Tn CIn OF SEA!.. BIt,CH
Sltes Acreage
1 Edlson Park (Leased) 10.0
2. GuIr. Grove Park (Leased) 10.0
3. Shapell Park 1.5
4. ~ariDB Communlty Center Bnd Park 'l.~
5. ~iseDho""er Fark n.4
6. Gummere Park 1.3
7. Schooner Park .8
8. ~orth Seal Beach Comunity Center .5
9. , Heather Park U.6
~/7.e .t.';-
10. P. E. Rlght-of-Way 7.9
~3
II. \il\ster Park .5
12. Armed Forces ReserVE Center SHe 13.0 +
TOTAL ACREAGE 49.9
13. .Beaches (including Surfside)
52.0
*Beaches are NOT under the jurlsdlction of the Seal Beach
Recreatlon Bnd Parks Department or the Seal Beach
Recreation and Parks COmID1SS1on.
ATTACHMENT to the Mlnutes of June 6, 1990 Plannlng Commission Meeting.
Submltted by Bruce Stark.