HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Min 1990-09-19
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CITY OF SEAL BEACH
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 19, 1990
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Planning Commission of the
City of Seal Beach was called to order on September 19, 1990 at
7:30 p.m. in City Council Chambers by Chalrman Fife.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Commlssioner Sharp.
ROLL CALL
Present:
Chairman Fife
CommlSSloners Orsinl, Sharp, Dahlman
Absent:
commissioner McCurdy
Also
Present:
Lee Whittenberg, Director, Development Srvcs. Dept.
Barry Curtis, Admin. Asst., Development Srvcs. Dept.
Michael Cho, Admin. Intern, Development Srvcs. Dept.
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 5, 1990
MOTION by Dahlman; SECOND by Sharp to approve the Planning
commission Minutes of September 5, 1990 with a correction on page
12 to read "The Planning Commission Mlnutes of August 1 and August
15, 1990 were approved on September 5, 1990".
MOTION CARRIED: 4 - 0 - 1
AYES: Fife, Orsini, Sharp, Dahlman
ABSENT: McCurdy
PUBLIC HEARINGS
2. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 10-90
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP NO. 90-332
1120 CENTRAL AVENUE
RESOLUTIONS NOS. 1589 and 1590
Staff Report
Mr. Curtis dellvered the staff report. The applicant, Bruce Stark,
requested the conversion of a two unit apartment into condominiums
at 1120 Central. Staff recommended approval of CUP 10-90 and
Tentative Parcel Map 90-332 subJect to eleven (11) conditions for
the CUP and two (2) condltions for the TPM. The staff report, on
file in the Planning Department, noted this property recelved a
Conditional Use Permlt, CUP 4-89, allowing a major remodel and
addition in 1989. It states this property intrudes two feet (2')
into the public right-of-way Vla a planted area along the north
slde of the property. It also states the CC&R's are being reviewed
by the City Attorney, the Engineering and Plannlng Departments.
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Planning Commission Minutes of September 19, 1990
Commlsslon Concerns
Bruce Stark * Seal Beach
Mr. Stark stated he wanted to be treated ln the same manner
everyone else ln the City was. He said "At the time I started this
project in Aprll of this year my contractor, Mr. Cox, approached
me and sald he had some reservations about contlnuing with thlS
project. I asked him why and he said that Mr. curtis and a
BUlldlng Inspector had been out on the job gOlng over it with a
'flne tooth comb' and saying they were instructed to check my
proJect copiously and if there was any deviation whatsoever they
were going to descend on me. And Mr. Cox said he didn't need to
get engaged in that sort of a problem. I went to see Lee
Whittenberg and Mr. Whittenberg assured me I would be treated the
same as everyone else. The remodeling was designed for condominium
conversion, having double insulated walls. In fact, the structure
exceeds the buildlngs requirements. I would like to address the
conditions that staff has imposed and I don't like the staff
'funning' wlth me:
#5.
Each dwelllng unit shall
utili ty meters and utility
telephone.
be provided with separate
lines (gas, electric and
That goes without saying; that is belng provlded. I was also told
by Mr. curtis 'You've got to have separate water meters'. No
problem; I forked out over $2,000 for separate water meters and now
I flnd that's not a conditlon after all. Someone's not been
straightforward with me.
#7. The applicant shall remove the planted area along the
property's northerly boundary from the publlC right-of
way and reconstruct said planted area within the
applicant's property limits.
I have about a two foot esplanade between the sldewalk and curb.
I suggested filling that in with decorative cement work leaving cut
outs for two trees I wanted to plant. 'Oh no. You can't do that.
That's got to be planted'. Mr. Bob Eagle confirmed this, that lt
had to be planted, that was the City's POllCY. So at great expense
the old dirt was trucked out and planter mix brought in and I'm
having several flats of ice plant planted there and a sprinkler
system to water it. You can lmagine my surprise to find that at
12th Street and Landing, whlle my ice plant lS gOlng ln, they're
pouring cement. I spent $300 on palm trees ... there are no trees
at 12th Street and Landing, they've got cement. Now accordlng to
this I'm gOlng to have to remove the planted area that's on City
property. Somebody's 'funning' me again.
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Planning COll.llission Minutes of September 19, 1990
It was embarrassing to me for Dr. Dahlman to come by Sunday and ask
about the condition on the landscaping. I had to come by Clty Hall
on Monday and get one [staff report].
I'm not sure what this means about removlng the planted area and
extending into the right-of-way. I don't know if the city owns any
of that property --- at least they've never indicated to me that
they own that property".
To demonstrate recent construction in the City that has been built
rlght to the property line, Mr. Stark submitted many photographs
of new constructlon for Commission review:
12th Street & Landing - they are 6'11" from the curb
line and have cement.
113 11th Street - they are 8' from the curb line.
Has a brick planter.
215 11th Street - brick planter to the sidewalk.
1501 Landing - 7' to the curb line with deck to the
sldewalk (hangs over a blt).
301 15th Street - Corner lot and 3'8" from the curb
line at the radlus; 6'10" on the 15th Street side;
6'10" on the Landing Street side. Brick and picket
fence.
302 15th Street - 7' from curb line on Landing; 7'
on 15th Street, 4' on corner radius.
239 15th Street - 6'11" to the curb.
237 15th Street - 6'10" wlth a block wall.
243 15th Street - 7' on 15th Street; 7' on Landlng,
3'11" on the radius to the corner wlth a brick wall.
238 14th Street - 7'6" to the curb with fence.
242 14th Street - 6'9" on the Landlng side; 7' on
the 14th Street side; 3'7" on the radius to the
curb.
Mr. Fife, to clarlfy Mr. Stark's point, asked if 1 t was to be
assumed that the City's ROW llne runs along the edge of the
sidewalk closest to these properties and these photographs show a
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Planning COllDission Minutes of September 19, 1990
pattern of landscaping within the city's ROW? Mr. Stark said "What
I am showing you is that recent construction, within the last three
years and some photographs here where the construction is presently
gOlng on, right over here on 11th Street, they're building right
to the property line." The block wall and planter Mr. Stark built
was bUll t with a building permit and inspected by the city and
approved. Mr. Stark felt it was "unconscionable for the City to
suddenly make claim to a foot or two of land and say that I have
to tear out all this landscaplng lncludlng the parkway when the
City itself was the one that insisted I put it in."
#6. The appllcant shall relocate the fire hydrant to provide
a minimum clearance of two feet from the beginning of the
full height curb.
"They want to relocate a flre hydrant two feet. Or two feet from
a full curb. Now that fireplug has been there from before Barry
was born. And when they improved the alleys, such as behind Main
Street, they did all the moving of the fireplugs that had to be
moved. There is nothlng wrong with that flreplug Sl tting there ...
it's been in front of my place for over ten years. Why does it
suddenly have to be moved and why should it be moved at my expense?
I didn't put it there".
#9. All taxes for the flscal year 1990-91 shall be pald in
full, and evidence of payment provlded upon submittal of
the Final Parcel Map.
"Item #9 is a little peculiar, they want me to pay my taxes ahead
of everybody else. Taxes are due in December and in April and they
want me to pay all my taxes in December for some reason. Tax-wise
that is not very good for me. I always pay my taxes. I don't know
why the Cl ty is suddenly concerned about whether I'm paying my
property taxes or not. ... I am sorely upset over being told by
City staff that I've got to plant something and now suddenly find
out two days before this meetlng that I've got to tear it all out,
that they've made a mistake. That's my money. I don't mind lf I
have to tear lt out - I want to see everybody else ln town tear lt
out too. But I think that's a great dlsservice for people who are
trying to make the City more attractive and to beautify It.
Well over a quarter million dollars has gone into that proJect.
And to come along at thlS late date and change the rules and say
you've got to do it dlfferently I thlnk that's a great injustice
and I don't like being treated differently. So I would ask the
Commission to remove Conditions #6 and #7. And maybe the City's
got some explanation as to why I've got to pay my taxes in advance
for Condition #9. If I have to I will. I have always paid my
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Planning Commission Minutes of September 19, 1990
taxes ...". Mr. Stark added the property was surveyed prior to
building to make sure the setback requirements were met.
Regarding Condition #7, Chairman Fife reminded Mr. Stark that the
public ROW line would remain where it is and he would not acqu1re
adverse title by having landscaping there. He asked Mr. Stark if
he saw any harm in the landscaping remaining until such time as the
city uses the land? Mr. Stark said he had no objection to that.
He added he was not claim1ng adverse possession. Adding that in
the ten years he's been using the property he may have an easement
but he's not concerned about that. He sa1d 1f the City wants to
claim that one foot of property he would turn 1t over whenever they
wanted to do something with it. Mr. Stark said Condition #7 was
unclear - he didn't know if the city wanted him to tear out the
parking strip, the trees and the sprinkler system.
Regarding the trees, Mr. Stark said Mr. curtis told him it was a
requirement that he put in two parkway trees; Bob Eagle planted
them. Mr. Stark had to and did replace the curbing.
Comm1ssioner Sharp asked Mr. Stark how much common area there was?
Mr. Stark replied the common areas are the walkway on the
build1ng's perimeter to the east and south, the landscaping in the
front and the laundry and water heater rooms.
Cha1rman Fife asked Mr. Stark where the property line ran? Mr.
Stark said "everyone assumes it's at the sldewalk" and indicated
he used to have a grape stake fence from the property line on the
East to the driveway. Mr. Stark said the property was surveyed
prior to building to make sure the building was going in with
proper setbacks. The surveyor put marks in the alley about six
inches from the sidewalk and the other marker is just about on the
sldewalk so it runs at an angle. Mr. Stark thought the average
property under d1Scussion is about one foot maX1mum in from the
sldewalk.
Mr. curtis replied to Mr. Stark's comments. Regarding Condit10n
#6 he stated this was imposed by the Engineering Department. Mr.
curtis said he was not an expert on how far a fire hydrant must be
in distance from a full curb height. He stated th1s 1S a normal
condition for a fire hydrant but staff would be pleased to double
check with the Engineering Department. If it's not a normal
requ1rement it could be dropped from the list of conditions.
Regarding Condition #7, Mr. curtis said th1S was poorly worded.
What staff was referring to was not to the parkway strip but was
to the br1ck wall built clearly beyond the property line. It was
bU11t one to two feet 1nto the public ROWand 1.5 feet h1gh. An
alternative to removing the wall would be for the applicant to sign
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Planning Commission Minutes of September 19, 1990
a release and provide an insurance bond for $1,000,000 holding the
City harmless due to any accidents related to the wall. Regarding
Cond1tion #5, two separate water meters were not required because
two months ago the Planning Commission asked for the cond1t1on not
to be required because it was a hardship on the property owners.
Regarding #9, This is a normal condition with each condo
converS1on requiring taxes to be pa1d 1n full for the year prior
to approval of final map because tax status changes at that t1me.
Regarding the cement at 12th street and Landing, the Engineering
Department requires pervious material in the parkway to keep water
off the streets. That owner dealt with Public Works and
Eng1neering and his water was retained by retaining walls.
Mr. Sharp noted that a person could drive around the City and could
f1nd things that weren't right but that shouldn't affect what the
Plann1ng Commission does on this applicat1on. Mr. Stark said he
was looking at new construction approved and built 1n the latest
one to two years and one that's being built right now.
Chairman Fife indicated the Comm1SS1on does not know where those
property lines end. Mr. Stark said he wasn't sure the City's
property d1dn't end at the sidewalk.
Comm1ssioner Orsini said he went out with Mr. Curt1s to look at a
slmilar project on Second Street and saw a lot of work that comes
right to the sidewalk. Mr. Orsini agreed with Mr. Stark that if
one 1S allowed all should be allowed.
Mr. Stark sa1d his brick wall is not harming anything and 1S
beautifying the property and he is not suggesting anyone tear
anything down. He said Mr. curtis wants the new block wall torn
out and moved back one foot (1').
Mr. Wh1ttenberg commented that the conditions 1n the staff report
are based on recommendations from the Department of Development
SerV1ces and the Department of Public Works. The encroachment of
the wall into the ROW was shown on the parcel map prepared by a
licensed surveyor and the sidewalk 1S two feet (2') from the
property 11ne as shown on plans from the applicant's engineer.
Code section 14-8 allows no encroachments into the public ROW.
Public Works Department permits have a hold-harmless clause to
benef1t the City. The fire hydrant is located in a slope area of
the alley dr1veway and a standard cond1tion for fire hydrants is
they not be located on a slope area and they must be a certa1n
d1stance from the dr1veway itself.
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Planning Commission Minutes of September 19, 1990
Mr. Whittenberg suggested adding a clarifying statement at the end
of the condition to read:
"if determined to be necessary by the Department of
Publ1C Works upon further review".
He explained this statement would provide that if the condition is
not necessary then this item would not come back before the
Planning Commission. It would allow the Public Works Department
to make that decision based on standard criter1a. The applicant
could appeal this decision to the City Council.
Mr. Whittenberg indicated there are structures around the City that
do encroach into numerous ROWs. Sidewalk areas differ 1n width.
Comm1ssioner Sharp asked why Mr. Stark had to pay the cost? Mr.
Whi ttenberg answered because the fees are generated due to a
development request by the applicant.
commissioner Dahlman, noting Mr. Stark had a permit for
construction in 1989 [CUP 8-89], asked staff why these conditions
weren't placed in that Conditional Use Permit and why now? Mr.
Wh1ttenberg answered that the plans show the wall on his property
and the subdivision plans show the wall is built in the wrong
place.
Mr. F1fe asked if, when the construction was approved in 1989, Mr.
Stark made it clear the construct1on would lead to condo
convers1on? Mr. Stark said he let it be known the remodel was for
the intention to convert to condominiums; he put 1n double walls.
It was not a secret. The applicant stated he is planning this
condo converS1on for his estate planning purposes and does not
intend to sell the build1ng.
Mr. Stark added the City put in the sloping alleys. "If the C1ty
contends they had a foot of land that I'm using then I could
contend I've been using that it open and notoriously for over ten
years and I think I have an easement to use it; I don't claim
adverse possession". Mr. Stark submitted a photo of 1495 Seal Way,
the condominium conversion most recently considered by the Planning
Commission. He contended that photo showed one brick encroachment
into the City's ROW.
Chairman Fife asked if this was a tempest 1n a teapot? He asked
staff how much does the Public Works Department permit cost? Mr.
Whittenberg said he was not certain and would check with Public
Works. Mr. Whittenberg said 1f Mr. Stark wished to pursue the bond
issue he would be glad to put him in touch with the Director of
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Planning commission Minutes of September 19, 1990
PubllC Works to discuss it. Mr. Stark sald "I don't mind putting
up a million dollar policy for the City to protect them from
liabillty that may be prudent, Mr. Whittenberg. All I ask is that
all the other property owners do the same thing...". Mr.
Whlttenberg said he understood Mr. Stark but that lssue is under
the purvlew of the PubllC Works Department because it's an
encroachment into their right-of-way. Mr. Stark indicated the laws
should make sense and lt doesn't make sense to tear out $1000 of
newly constructed block wall and move lt back six to twelve inches.
Mr. Stark said "Nobody gains anything by it, except perhaps
somebody who wants to harass somebody or single me out".
Mr. Whl ttenberg indicated the condition regarding taxes is a
standard condition on all subdivisions to ensure the taxes are pald
prlor to the property belng sold to subsequent lndividuals who
would then be responsible for the property taxes. Regarding the
condltlon on the fire hydrant, staff would ask the Public Works
Department to review that condition again to make sure that the
condition should be imposed or not and wordlng has been suggested
wordlng WhlCh would allow for that determlnatlon to be made by the
Department of Public Works wlthout coming back before the City's
Planning Commission for additional review. Regarding the wall, a
number of alternatives have been provided for the wall situatlon
for Mr. Stark to consider; the Code can't be changed. There's a
methodology to have the wall remain via a PubllC Works bond called
an "Encroachment Permit."
Mr. Flfe, responding to Mr. Stark's comments on Conditlon #9, sald
he didn't think that condition was specifically intended for Mr.
Stark. Mr. Stark asked why should he pay all of his taxes at once
lnstead of part in December and part in April? Mr. Flfe said he's
seen this condition written into CUP's ln other cltles. Mr. Stark
replied that his property is not in escrow and is not being sold.
The ownership will be the same now and after the conversion.
Mr. Fife asked if the CC&R's make it a pair of condos versus a
single apartment buildlng? Mr. Stark replied yes.
Regarding the brick planter, CommlSSloner Dahlman indicated to
staff that if there really is slgniflcant liabillty to the City,
then staff should go around town and make a list of all the
propertles that have these problems. Staff should also find out
about the Encroachment Permits and have all owners comply.
Mr. Cho, responding to Commissloner Dahlman, said one of his new
proJects as a Planning Department Intern is to find right-of-way
encroachments. Mr. Cho lndicated Planning Department staff has
been at an impasse on its munlclpal Code enforcement. They are not
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Planning CODllission Minutes of September 19 I 1990
v1gorously pursuing enforcement at th1S time due to the lengthy
process involved in process1ng m1sdemeanor complaints. Once the
proposed infraction process 1S 1n place, staff will be in a
position to pursue infractions v1gorously. In the meantime, Mr.
Cho stated he will proceed to enforce the municipal Codes as
presently wr1tten. He 1ndicated staff needs d1rection from the
Comm1SS1on. For example, does the City want un1form streets or to
allow permitted and insured encroachments?
commissioner Dahlman urged staff to "use common sense and make sure
the plaY1ng field is level". He asked staff why they didn't know
what's involved 1n the Encroachment Permit and the liability
insurance? He felt staff should have known about these 1 terns. Mr.
Cho advised that the liability insurance is part of the owner's
homeowners policy wherein the C1ty is made an additional 1nsured.
Larry Peters * 1121 4th street * Seal Beach
Mr. Peters spoke in favor of Conditional Use Permit 10-90, stat1ng
the mon1es expended had vastly improved the property and thereby
the ne1ghborhood.
Chairman F1fe asked the Commissioners to let h1m 'try h1S hand' at
some changes 1n language before the conditions are actually voted
on to see if the Commission can agree:
#6. The applicant shall relocate the f1re hydrant to provide
a minimum clearance of two feet from the beg1nning of the
full height curb, if determined to be necessary by the
Department of Public Works upon further review.
#7. The applicant shall remove any walls or permanent
structures located in the planted area along the
property's northerly boundary line from the public r1ght-
of-way unless the applicant obtains an encroachment
permit. This condition will become effective in 120
days.
[Emphasis added to show changes].
The 1dea being to give the appl1cant time to find out the cost of
gett1ng the bond or pay an endorsement on his homeowner's policy
to cover the City or to corne back to the Planning Comm1ssion before
120 days and try to convince the Commission that the City is not
in fact enforcing the ordinance generally but rather 1S enforc1ng
1t peculiarly as to him.
Commiss1oner Ors1ni said, regarding Condi t10n #6, that if the
actual Publ1C Works Department made the dr1veway slope then they
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Planning Commission Minutes of September 19, 1990
should be liable for it. Dr. Dahlman agreed that lt was clear Mr.
Stark dldn't place the fire hydrant. Dr. Dahlman said he would
like to delete entirely Condi tlon #6 as inappropriate. Mr.
Whittenberg said he could not address what has been done in the
past and this is the second condo project he has seen since being
employed at the Cl ty. But he did thlnk 1 t would be a proper
condi tion if the hydrant was located improperly. He said the
Commlssion ought to think seriously about thlS condltion because
it's a recommended condition by the Public Works Department and
they obviously had some concerns about It. Mr. Whlttenberg felt
it would be more appropriate to leave Condition #6 in place with
the proviso language. Commissioner Dahlman said he dlsagreed,
stating the applicant is present to defend hlS posltlon and staff
should be ready to explain and defend their conditions also. If
Public Works is not present then thelr condltlons are falr game if
they're not present to defend them. Mr. Whlttenberg lndlcated
everyone understood there's a concern about the condition and the
reasonableness of the condition but that caution should be
exercised ln deleting it automatically and not allowing Public
Works to come back at some point and be able to justify or not
justify the condition.
Chairman Flfe, calling for a straw vote, noted there were no
Commisslon objections to Conditions 1 through 5. Regarding
Condition 6,
Commissioners Fife and Sharp wanted it left in with the new added
language and CommlSSloners Dahlman and Orsini wanted lt removed
entirely. Mr. Sharp suggested addlng " This condition will become
effective in 120 days" to Condition 6 and the CommlSSloners agreed
this would be a good way to break the deadlock. Commissioner
Dahlman sald he wanted the Public Works Department to explain this
to the Commlssion and state thlS is truly what they are asklng
everyone to do before requiring of it of Mr. Stark and recommended
suspenSlon of thlS provislon so that it takes effect 120 days.
Chairman Flfe noted the 120 day provision would give the appllcant
time to work with the Public Works Department. Regarding Condition
7, Commlssioner Dahlman said he was agreeable to It. Regardlng
Conditlon 9, Commissloner Orsini asked if that was also placed on
1495 Seal Way, the last condo conversion? Mr. Curtis said yes it
was. Mr. Whittenberg explained it's a standard condition of all
subdlvision requests ln the City, whether it's a condo conversion
or not.
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Plannlnq Commission Minutes of september 19, 1990
MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Orsini to approve Conditional Use Permit
10-90 and Tentative Parcel Map No. 90-332, subject to the
corrections of Conditions #6 and #7 noted below, through the
adoption of Resolutions Nos. 1596 and 1597.
#6. The applicant shall relocate the fire hydrant to provide
a minimum clearance of two feet from the beginning of the
full height curb, if determined to be necessary by the
Department of Public Works upon further review. This
condition will become effective in 120 days.
#7. The applicant shall remove any walls or permanent
structures located in the planted area along the
property's northerly boundary line from the public right-
of-way unless the applicant obtains an encroachment
permit. This condition will become effective in 120
days.
MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 - 1
AYES: Orsini, Sharp, Fife, Dahlman
ABSENT: McCurdy
Chairman Fife called a recess at 8:45 p.m..
9:00 p.m.
Meeting resumed at
***
SCHEDULED MATTERS
3. PROPOSED GUIDELINES FOR COVERED ROOF ACCESS STRUCTURES
staff Report
Mr. Curtis del1 vered the staff report on proposed Zoning Text
Amendment (ZTA) 6-90 regarding Covered Roof Access structures
(CRAS). The report presented f1ve alternatives for suggested
guidel1nes to the CRAS's. Staff is asking the Commission narrow
the five alternatives to one alternative that staff can pursue for
the proposed ZTA. At the next Planning Commission meeting,
subsequent to noticing requirements, staff will schedule a Public
Hearing to d1SCUSS the proposed guidelines.
Comm1ssion Comments
Commissioner orsini said he preferred Alternative 4, having no CRAS
in Old Town as they serve no purpose.
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Planning Commission Minutes of September 19, 1990
commissioner Sharp said he preferred Alternative 1. He didn't
agree w1th Alternative 4, not allowing any CRAS in the City but
allow1ng uncovered roof access decks.
Commiss1oner Dahlman said he preferred Alternat1ve 1. Agreeing
with Mr. Sharp, he felt the problem with the CRAS is a loophole
in the wording of CRAS zoning, section 28-2317. It allows people
to build above the height limit. He felt when the word got out
they declared everything being built above the height limit to be
a CRAS and proceeded w1th the building w1thout getting a height
variance. He stated he felt none of the alternatives presented in
the staff report adequately addressed this problem. He said he
would like to see the entire loophole removed and start fresh. He
said he would have supported Alternative 4 if it would have allowed
people to continue to bU1ld CRAS when they were reasonable and
appropr1ate.
Mr. Whittenberg said that's really what staff's intent is with
Alternative 1 --- to remove the paragraph from the Code now Wh1Ch
allows for the exemption for the covered and uncovered CRAS as just
a straight exemption from the Code and then place a new provision
in the Code which would allow future applications for CRAS in the
Old Town Area and Surfs ide subject to a Public Hear1ng process and
elim1nate any future ones from being sought in other areas of the
commun1ty.
Chairman Fife, agree1ng with Commissioner Dahlman, sa1d he sensed
the core of the issue was not the CRAS concept but the abuse of
that concept. People have gone way beyond what 1S necessary for
safe roof access. He favored Alternative 1 with the addition of
a paragraph of that review at:
(5) Uncovered stairwells to Open Roof Decks.
C. Review
( 1)
(a)
(b)
(c)
The covered roof access structure is
functionally limited only for the purpose
of provid1ng a safe covered access to the
deck and for no other purpose.
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Planning COlllDission Minutes of September 19, 1990
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Mr. Whlttenberg sald it is staff's purpose to restrict the abuse
of buildlng a extra room on top of your house and calling it a
covered roof access by suggesting that all of the applications come
before the Planning Commission for review and that all adjoining
property owners to the property in question are notified of that
hearlng. Staff is looklng for Commission clarification on which
alterative is preferred.
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commissioner Dahlman asked "Why, if it's so simple that we're just
trying to get people who want a covered roof access to glve notice
and comply with the height limit or get an exceptlon to the height
limlt from us, does it take three pages to write that down?
Secondly, why are certain sections of town excluded from it? I
don't understand why the people in one section of town should have
thlS apply to them and in another section of town lt should not
...". Mr. Whittenberg said the City has received petltlons from
many people on the Hill who indicated they don't want any more CRAS
built in that area at all. Commissioner Dahlman said he would hate
to correct this problem for the Hill area only to have lt crop up
in Old Town and have to correct it again. He said "I don't want
to grandfather in one builder who has put up a whole bunch of CRAS
and the prohibit all further CRAS, granting him some type of uneven
playing field". Mr. Whittenberg lndicated two different questions
have been brought up, (1) staff's intention is to change the Code
to the point where CRAS can be allowed via Planning Commlssion
approval to ensure equality and (2) how to deal with the CRAS
already built. They are legal and permitted. Do you amortize
those CRAS in areas where you feel they are no longer appropriate,
like the Hlll? There are four CRAS on the Hill but Old Town and
Surfs ide have substantial numbers of them.
commissioner Dahlman said "I hate to undermine everything you just
said but you gave your assumption that everything you have
currently bUl1t is legal and I have to vehemently disagree with
that. The zoning text as written allows CRAS and if somebody
builds a dome, an observatory dome, then that's something more and
it's definltely not permitted by the Code and lt is not
grand fathered in. You can't grandfather that dome up there."
Addressing Mr. Whittenberg, Commissioner Dahlman asked if, because
1 t would be too much of a workload on staff, staff wants a
different rule to apply to the Hill than Old Town? Mr. Whittenberg
replied no, that if the Commission doesn't want any CRAS to be
built anywhere in the City then the Commission needs to decide how
to treat those that have already been built and he mentloned the
various options available to the Commission. Commissioner Dahlman
sald he felt homeowners from Catalina on south are lnterested in
roof decks to get a view of the ocean.
.
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Planning Commission Minutes of September 19, 1990
.
The Commlssion agreed to take some publlC testlmony on thlS subJect
and a PubllC Hearing was opened.
Jerry Anderson * 1301 Sandplper Drive * Seal Beach
Mr. Anderson stated he flrst called the Planning Commission in June
1989, before the dome was ever on he talked to the City Council in
January 1990 and again to the Plannlng CommlSSlon in 1990. He said
he felt taking down the CRAS already bUl1t would be ludicrous ---
like the 13' x 10' structure on South Shore. "We're not even
saying to take this doghouse down ... we're saying the doghouse
was bUl1t according to the Code that was ln place ... we have to
live with the doghouse but we still hate it ... we presented a 300
signature petition stating that we ... are opposed to any portion
of a structure exceeding stated height limit in residential
dlstricts ... why do we have a limit and then everybody gets to go
beyond the limit? The dome is not a CRAS, lt was added, it was
not in the initial plan and-it was built because a mistake was made
in the Planning Department and I don't want to live with a
mistake". Mr. Anderson said he received a letter from the city
Attorney on August 8, 1990. On June 11, 1990 the City Council
directed staff to send a letter to Mark Thompson relatlng to the
observadome and its amortization. "What is "reasonable" for
amortizatlon? I've been talking about this for sixteen months".
.
commissioner Sharp said "What we're really trying to find out is
what we can do about this ordinance. We... know we don't like the
observadome ... I for one would like to have lt taken down but
that's in the legal department now and we can't do anything about
It''. Mr. Anderson said" Sir, that's not so. We direct the legal
department. The legal department doesn't run the City of Seal
Beach - that's ludicrous". Commissioner Dahlman sald "You're right
Mr. Anderson, it's not in the legal department. Nothlng is being
done about it".
Mr. Anderson sald he and the 300 signatures on the petition are
saying they don't want anything built above the stated height limit
of twenty-five feet in the entire Clty.
Alan Shields * 1300 Catalina * Seal Beach
Mr. Shields said he has resided in Seal Beach for ten years. He
objected to building above the twenty-five feet limit and urged the
Commission to close the CRAS clause and eliminate the loophole.
Regarding the observadome he stated that when thlS project first
carne before the Plannlng Commission as a Consent Calendar item it
stated only that this was a 650 square foot second story addition.
The news fed its way down thru the nelghborhood. When they asked
about it there were told by the Building Department "don't worry
.
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Planning Commission Minutes of September 19, 1990
about it - 1t'S a simple second story addition". "I 11ve adJacent
to this property and have lost my view and privacy and loss in
quality in life". He recommended enforcing the 25' he1ght lim1t
with no exceptions and resc1nd prev10usly issued variances. And
red tag all of those persons who have clearly violated the original
intent of the CRAS. He said 1n March 1989 the Planning Department
surveyed CRAS and people were living in them. until they resolve
this by making it not habitable the City should make it very
difficult for them to sell that property.
Charles Antos * 328 17th street * Seal Beach
Mr. Antos stated that prior to the current CRAS provisions being
in the Code, there was a small section in Ordinance 628, that
allowed some items to go higher than the roof. These were
ch1mneys, flag poles, antennae and it did allow a stairwell access.
When CRAS went in they were abused and now there are rooms up
there. He supported the basic he1ght limit section alternative
with the one exception that fireplace chimneys and TV antennae be
allowed to go higher than the 25' limit. If someone wants to try
for something higher they would have to file a variance.
Galen Ambrose * [No Address G1ven] * Seal Beach
Mr. Ambrose supported enforcement of the twenty-five foot height
limit and felt there was no reason to exceed it.
No one wishing to speak further on this subJect Cha1rman Fife
closed the Public Hearing.
commission Comments
Comm1ssioner Dahlman said he hears everyone saying they
support the twenty-five foot he1ght limit and that they would
tolerate CRAS as long as they did not exceed the height limit. He
said "I really don't see that alternative here. I see page after
page of language that is just open to --- somebody is going to find
a way to exploit this. I think it needs to be re-done". Mr.
Whittenberg said Alternative 4 would take that action by removing
the provision for CRAS out of the Code. That would allow for a
CRAS if it was under twenty-five foot height limit. Dr. Dahlman
then supported Alternative 4.
Chairman Fife and Commissioners Sharp and Orsini supported
Alternative 4.
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Planning COllDission Minutes of SepteDber 19, 1990
Mr. Whlttenberg said staff could do thlS but what he heard tonlght
was the most of the Commissioners wanted to just have the 25'
helght limlt period. He wondered if much would be accomplished by
reviewlng it again. Mr. Fife said the focus on maintainlng the
integrity of the 25' height limit has been in a context of the
abuses of the CRASs and the Commission has not had much of a debate
on whether the height limit needs to be as stringently enforced
with respect to the Minor Helght Variation issue.
commissioner Dahlman sald if the Minor Height Variation procedure
works then he didn't think it needed to be fixed. He restated the
Minor Height Variance procedure works by the Planning Commission
reviewing and making a recommendation to the City Council for thelr
ul timate decision. He suggested accepting Al ternatl ve 4 and
'beefing up' the Mlnor Helght Varlation. Mr. Whittenberg said the
Minor Height Variation process included Noticlng property owners
and the findlngs needed to make to grant it are not as stringent
as those of a regular Variance. Additional findings could be added
to be made by the appllcant. These could lnclude impact on
adjoining properties, casting of shadows, architectural
compatibili ty with the main structure on the property, slmilar
rooflng materials.
Commlssion Dlrection
Chairman Fife said the Commission's consensus is to recommend staff
pursue Al ternatl ve 4 with respect to CRAS. It mayor may not
follow from that that the Commission may thlnk of throwlng the
Minor Height Variance code out; the Commission doesn't know enough
about lt at thlS point. The regular Variance findings are very
difficult to make.
commissioner Sharp suggested that the Commission ask staff to bring
back (at the next Commission meeting) a suggested guidellne for the
Mlnor Height Variation so the Commission can review 1 t at the
Public Hearing. Mr. Fife agreed, saying he would not want the
Minor Height Variatlon procedure to un-do what the Commisslon does
with Alternative 4.
Mr. Whittenberg said this item can be scheduled for the October 17,
1990 Planning commission meeting. A Notice of PubllC Hearing must
be done.
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Planning COllDiBsion Minutes of SepteD.ber 19, 1990
4.
WORK PROGRAM: CUP PROCESS FOR OFFICES IN COMMERCIAL
ZONES: SHARED PARKING: SIGN PROGRAM
staff Report
Mr. Wh1ttenberg presented the staff report. The Planning
Commission had d1rected staff to br1ng back a work program as to
what activities might be undertaken and a timeline that staff
thinks to complete the work for requir1ng a Conditional Use Perm1t
to be obtained for office uses which would be replacing existing
retail uses on ground floor commercial space within the City and
to also look at shared parking for shopping center and the
landscaping and signage requirements.
Cha1rman Fife stated he llkes the presentation and at Task 2 -
Field Reconnaissance add a topic called "Ex1sting percentage of C2
space currently leased or offered for office usage by study area
and by ground vs. upper floor breakdown". Mr. Whittenberg said
this would be included under the first item; staff will be looking
at C1 and C2 properties.
commissioner Dahlman encouraged the staff by saying "Maybe those
are maX1mum times go as fast as you can you guys". Mr.
Whittenberg said "this is the time schedule we th1nk we can meet
with the existing workload we have now. If that workload changes
dramatically we might need to readjust this". Replying to Mr.
Fife, Mr. Whittenberg said these times are sequential with the
exception of Tasks 2 and 3 the 60 days and 75 days would be
overlapping, the others are sequential.
No motion is needed; staff has Commiss1on direction. staff will
forward this to the City Council for their review. Once Council
responds to staff, staff will report back to the Commission that
the process 1S beginning.
ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Galen Ambrose * Seal Beach
Mr. Ambrose sa1d he had hoped Commissioner McCurdy would have been
at tonight's meeting to address corrections to statements made by
Mr. McCurdy as soon as possible. Mr. Ambrose, responding to a
September 18, 1990 letter written by Mr. McCurdy to Leisure World
resident Lionel Oakum, said certain statements caused the Wetlands
Restoration Soc1ety harm. Mr. Ambrose responded:
Dear Lionel:
In response to your inquiry concerning the content of a letter
received by you from Howard McCurdy, I would like to clarify
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Plann1nq Commission M1nutes of September 19, 1990
some points. Mr. McCurdy states that the WRS brought suit
against the City for an out-of-date Housing Element. This is
true. His second remark, stating that the WRS filed a second
sU1t against the C1ty was incorrect. What the WRS did do at
the request of many residents was object to the hastily drawn
up Housing Element. This updated Housing Element was rushed
through at the old Council's request to provide them with a
means for again approving the Mola project before the new
Council could act. This attempt to circumvent the wishes of
the public failed. Also the court is in the process of
deciding on the new Housing Element. The cost of the or1ginal
sui t against the City has already been paid by concerned
res1dents and environmental groups who realized the cost to
the City to defend it would be far less than the cost to our
community and environment if Mola were to build h1s project.
Mr. McCurdy says you are being asked to help with attorneys
fees to sue yourself. This is a misstatement of facts. The
reason the WRS is now collecting funds is to sustain a
decision against the Mola corporation. This new court action
is not a suit against the City as Mr. McCurdy wrongly states,
it is an appeal brought by Mola involving a decision he lost
at the lower court level to have his Development Agreement
re1nstated hoping to overturn the lower court's decision. We
hope that you and other concerned residents will continue to
sort out the facts and will not be mislead by incorrect
statements. We also hope you will continue to support the WRS
in the protection of our community and environment from people
who would destroy it for selfish motives.
S1gned,
Galen F. Ambrose
Vice Chair Person
Mr. Ambrose said "Thank you Mr. McCurdy and now that you have the
correct facts at your disposal that you will go around and correct
the misstatements made to maybe other people than Mr. Oakum."
Alan Shields * Seal Beach
Mr. Shields said his understanding of the dome 1ssue comes from his
representative on the Hill, Gwen Forsythe, from the City's legal
department "as addressed 1n a letter 1n response to Jerry
Anderson's letter ..." that spec1fic action was going to occur
relative to 1305 Sandpiper. He feels the wheels of just1ce are
turning very slowly.
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Planning COlllliBsion Minutes of September 19, 199Q
Mr. Whittenberg said once the Commission has developed new criterla
then the Commission will need to deal wlth the issue of how to
handle the existing structures ln town. Mr. Fife said "whether or
not, and how, you amortize out structures that were fully in
compllance wlth the Code that applled when they were built because
you now have a dlfferent Code is one issue ... others have focused
on the proposltion that the dome, if not other CRAS, did not even
meet the Code that applied when they were built and the concept
that if the government makes a mistake it's not necessarlly bound
by that mlstake ... it's a general proposition that government can
make a mistake and it's very difficult to stop government".
Addressing Mr. Shields, Mr. Fife said "if the required level of
action that you would like to see being taken is not belng taken
by the Councll, the Planning Commisslon is certainly not in a
position to direct and push the Councll ... we only recommend to
the Council, the Council takes the ultimate action". Mr. Flfe
advised Mr. Shields that staff is working on a more streamlined
Code enforcement process. Where now there is the criminal
mlsdemeanor enforcement method WhlCh is expensive and cumbersome,
staff is anticipating an infraction/fine process. Mr. Shields said
"that is almost exactly classic. You really don't have
anything to do wlth what I just said ... I'm saying I have been led
to believe ... something is going on ... we have been led since
April of this year through the City Council and the way lt has
dlrected various parts of its staff to take some kind of action ...
I've just got thru hearing ... you have nothing to do with my
problem". Mr. Fife explained again that with respect to enforclng
the posslble infraction of existing Code, for that structure of
other structures like that, which were built in violation of the
Code as it stood when they were built the present, ultimate
enforcement rests with the Council as it directs staff. If that
lsn't moving fast enough there's nothing the Commission can do
about that. However, staff and the Commission is working toward
a better, more streamlined enforcement process to recommend to the
Council then the Council would not be facing a cumbersome
enforcement process. Commissioner Dahlman said his position on
this observatory has not changed, it dld and does require a Mlnor
Height Variance. Mr. Whittenberg said "the position at this time
is that the structure is there and the City Attorney is taking a
look at an abatement process for that thru some sort of
amortlzation. They do not feel it is there in such a manner to
where they can go out and order the summary removal of it and be
successful in doing that". Mr. Shields said they must first
determlne it shouldn't be there; he asked he be notified. Mr.
Whi ttenberg said "there are competing viewpoints as to whether that
structure is there legally or not. The impresslon we're getting
from the City Attorney's Office is the structure is there properly,
they do have permits for it, it's not in total conformance with the
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Planning COJIDission MinuteB of September 19, 1990
plans as subm1tted ... 1t'S 1n substantial compl1ance. The C1ty
Attorney's opin1on 1S that there is not sufficient legal
grounds to go in and just order that structure to be removed". Mr.
Sh1elds held up a photograph and said "All you have to do is look
at it - that's not a covered roof access, that's a separate use
structure above the height limit". Mr. Anderson said "It needs a
M1nor Height Variance". All we hear is that Lee is either working
on something or the Attorney is work1ng on something ... we'd like
to get it in the process. We want to know e1ther 1t'S O.K. and we
have to live with it or 1t'S not O.K. and he has to take 1t down".
Mr. whittenberg said". .. the posi t10n of the City Attorney is that
there is not a legal method that they can find at this p01nt to
force the project to come back before the City under a Minor Height
Variance". commissioner Dahlman said "I'm sorry. That's not the
information I got from speaking directly with Quinn Barrow. I
would like to make a mot1on to direct staff to request a Minor
Height Variance on this project. And at least we'll get some
feedback by the next meeting". Cha1rman Fife said the Commission
cannot take that kind of action. The Commission can place this
1 tern on the agenda for the October 3rd meet1ng as a scheduled
matter w1th a Public Hearing with Notice of property owners to
determine whether or not this structure, as built, satisfied the
applicable Code and the Comm1ssion could then recommend something
to the Council. Mr. Whittenberg said it would be appropriate to
get a further city Attorney report as to what the different act10ns
available to the City are. Mr. Anderson sa1d he felt like he's
been spinning his wheels for the last n1ne months and now "...
we're asking the attorney to glve us an op1nion. The attorney
should know everyth1ng there is to know about it". Mr. Whittenberg
said the City Attorney has not seen fit to direct Planning
Department staff, the City Councilor the Planning Commission to
schedule any sort of hearing on th1S item because he does not feel
it's appropriate. Cha1rman F1fe said that "since we have normal
plenary jurisdiction on Minor Height Variations in the f1rst place
and we should be able to agendize the question of whether or not
th1S structure should have required a Minor Height Var1ation. If
we find it did not then that ends it. If we find 1t should have
had one then we can determine whether we wi 11 recommend to the
Council that they in turn direct some sort of enforcement action.
I think elementary due process requires that the affected property
owner have sufficient notice to come down here and give his reasons
as to why it shouldn't have required a Minor Height Var1ation ...".
Chairman Sharp noted the City Council, not the Planning Commission,
should direct the C1ty Attorney. Chairman F1fe agreed and said we
could determine whether this should have had a Minor Height
Variation. He said he would like to hear both sldes of the issue.
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Planning CODDission Minutes of Sept8Dber 19, 1990
MOTION by Orsini; SECOND by Dahlman to agendize and hold a Public
Hearing at the October 17, 1990 Planning Commission meeting on
whether the covered roof access structure/observatory dome at 1305
Sandpiper Drive should have had a Minor Height Variance. And ask
for input on October 3 or October 17, 1990 from the city Attorney
as appropriate after consulting with the City Council.
MOTION CARRIED: 4 - 0 - 1
AYES: Orsini, Sharp, Fife, Dahlman
ABSENT: McCUrdy
Alan Shields * Seal Beach
Mr. Shields said this issue culminated with the City Council, wlth
the petitions presented and with Notice to homeowner Mark Thompson.
Mark Thompson told the Council he followed the rules. The result
was the Councll re-directed the City Attorney again to look harder
--- the Council has already gone through a process like this.
Charles Antos * 328 17th Street * Seal Beach
Mr. Antos, through the Chair to Mr. Whittenberg, asked about the
new street signs with seals on them - who authorized them and how
much dld they cost? He asked staff to pass this word to the City
Manager. Mr. Antos noted that replacing street signs could be very
costly and if, as Councilmember Hunt indicated, the City would be
broke in three years how much is being spent on this.
Bruce Stark * Seal Beach
Mr. Stark asked the Commission to give property owners along Seal
Beach Boulevard direction on what can be done with thelr
properties. This is a commercial area. Regarding imposing into
right-of-ways, Surfside is probably one of the biggest offenders.
He said "the City has set idly by and let Surfs ide build into the
public way and nothing is said about that". Regarding CRAS, he
agreed with the city Attorney in not being able to get the owner
to remove it.
Chairman Fife said the Commission was reviewing the shared parking
concept as a workable Solutlon and the next step would be where to
apply it; it should not be differentially applied. Mr. Stark sald
"Everybody has their opinion on parking. I would like to see
something equitably enforced - to everybody the same. Instead of
all these d----d exceptions ... if you know somebody in City Hall
and you've got the access to talk to somebody well you can bUlld
whatever you want and not have to meet the parking requlrements or
go down to st. Anthony's (sic) and try to fill that up four-fold.
If you don't know anybody, too bad too sad, you better try to start
your business in Huntington Beach and forget about Seal Beach".
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Planning Commission Minutes of September 19, 1990
Mr. whittenberg objected to that statement, saying "I thlnk that's
totally incorrect. Our staff does not grant speclal privileges to
people wlthout it going through the proper channels".
Galen Ambrose * Seal Beach
Mr. Ambrose asked how hlgh the observatory dome was? Staff said
it was measured at less then 32 feet; it exceeds the Hill's height
Ilmlt of 25 feet. Mr. Ambrose sald the observatory dome at 1305
Sandplper should have had a variance and recommended the Clty hire
an aggressive City Attorney, not one who does not want to take a
chance on loslng a case ... one who knows how to apply our City
laws correctly. Secondly, regarding parking at McGaugh School.
It loans itself out for other activities and it makes parking on
week-ends almost impossible for residents. Shouldn't there be some
parking requlrements belng enforced there?
commissioner Dahlman said the middle and elementary schools are
planned with parklng for teachers only; there is not much parking.
Mr. curtis said recreation permits are not mentioned in the Code.
A church should have a Conditional Use Permit (CUP) and it is
requlred ln the Code. Mr. Curtis said if a CUP was required
specific parking requirements could be placed on it during its
processing. Staff will have to check City files to see if that
church does or does not have a CUP. For school educatlonal
activities the City has no control over what happens on school
district property. State laws exempt educational facilities from
any requirements of the city. Even the structural building
requirements are dealt with at the State level. Staff will
research and make a report to the Commission on Calvary Chapel
Church at McGaugh School at the October 3, 1990 meeting.
Alan Shlelds * Seal Beach
Mr. Shlelds said that the owner of 1305 Sandpiper bypassed the
Clty'S building procedures.
Jerry Anderson * Seal Beach
Mr. Anderson, rebuttlng Mr. Stark's comment that the "price of
liberty is vigilance" said he was here. Lee Whittenberg and Barry
curtis were at 1305 Sandpiper Drive before the dome went up. He
has been vigilant.
STAFF CONCERNS
There were no staff concerns.
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Planning commission Minutes of Septenber 19, 1990
COMMISSION CONCERNS
CommlSSloner Dahlman sald hlS plannlng packet contalned a Navy map
showlng SlX earthquake faults ln town --- WhlCh are more faults
than he knew about. Mr. Whlttenberg sald thlS was from an EIS done
on Endangered Specles Management Plan at the Naval Weapons Statlon.
The indlcated faults are malnly sub-surface faults that are not
currently recognized by the state of Californla as belng actlve
faults. An active fault is mapped under the Alquist Priolo Act and
in town it's the Newport-Inglewood fault. The Navy map was derived
from looking at subsurface geology reports for oil exploration in
the area. Based on those drillings they are postulating there are
other sub-surface faults. Mr. Whittenberg said he spent two days
making 45 telephone contacts to different cities getting
information on geological mapping. Once the information is
compiled, staff will prepare a summary for the City Council for
their consideration "since they were the ones who asked that the
previous report to the Planning Commission be held until they were
provided some additional information". staff will take direction
from Council. It is not on the agenda at this time.
commissioner Dahlman asked about the Irisher not having a cup for
the sale of alcoholic beverages. Mr. Whittenberg said it is a
legal pre-existing location that has been in existence long before
CUP's were required in the city. staff is assembling background
on problems occurring in that location thru the Police Department.
Staff will discuss with the Clty Attorney an abatement process to
deal with those issues. Staff has contacted the property owners
who have brought the problems to the City's attention and they are
aware of the process.
commissioner Dahlman asked staff to check the date of the first
meeting in January, stating he thought it would be January 9th.
Chairman Fife said the trash is gathering again at the Bixby fence
along Seal Beach Boulevard. Mr. Cho said Bixby Co. is trying to
send a regular maintenance person to that site. Mr. Whittenberg
will check.
Chairman Fife said Bill Dawson, owner of the Seal Beach Trailer
Park, wants to address the Planning Commission on the history of
the Trailer Park, where the taxes go etc. Staff will place it on
the October 17, 1990 agenda.
Chairman Fife asked staff to be certain a Police Department
representative is present at the October 3, 1990 meeting when the
Super Saver Cinema Seven CUP is reviewed.
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Planning commission Minutes of September 19( 1990
ADJOURNMENT
Chalrman Flfe adJourned the meetlng at 10:55 p.m.
Respectfully Submltted,
\\O~~~~
Joan Fillmann
Executive Secretary
Planning Department
***
These Minutes are tentative and are subject to Planning Commisslon
approval.
***
The Planning Commission Minutes of september 19, 1990 were approved
by the Commission on October ~ 1990.
-d:-
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