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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Min 1992-10-07 . . . - - CITY OF SEAL BEACH PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING of OCTOBER 7, 1992 The regularly scheduled Planmng CommIssIon meetmg of October 7, 1992 was called to order by VIce Chairman Dahlman at 7 30 p m In CIty CouncIl Chambers PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The Pledge of AllegIance was led by VIce Charrman Dahlman ROLL CALL Present' VIce Chairman Dahlman CommIsSIOners Sharp, OrSinI Staff Present Department of Development ServIces' Lee WhIttenberg, DIrector Barry CurtIs, AdmmlstratIve ASSIStant Absent Chairman FIfe (Excused absence) CommIsSIoner Law (Excused absence) Joan FIllmann (Excused absence) CONSENT CALENDAR 1. Minutes of September 23, 1992 MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Orsini to approve the Planning Commission Minutes of September 23, 1992 as presented. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Sharp, Orsini, Dahlman Fife, Law SCHEDULED MATTERS 2. Conditional Use Permit #14-91 3005 Old Ranch Parkway * SpaghettIm RotIssene & Gnll VIce Chairman Dahlman indIcated thIS Item was scheduled for Plannmg CommIsSIon reVIew to conSIder Indefimte extenSIOn of theIr entertaInment perffilt They haven't completed theIr work WIth the Department of AlcoholIc Beverage Control (ABC) on theIr entertaInment permIt and the CIty antICIpates a three month delay The matter WIll be tabled and rescheduled once ABC has completed ItS reVIew . . . Page 2 - PIannmg COIlUtl18SI0Il Mmules of October 7. 1992 MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Orsini to table Conditional Use Permit #14-91, to be rescheduled after ABC has completed their review process. MOTION CARRIES: A YES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Sharp, Orsini, Dahlman Fife, Law PUBLIC HEARINGS DIrector WhIttenberg indIcated the Planmng CommIssIOn rules reqUIre an affIrmatIve vote of three members of the CommIssIOn to approve any Item they consIder. He told all the applIcants they have the nght to request theIr Item be contInued to a future meetIng when all members of the CommIssIOn are present He adVIsed the CommIssIoners they could receIve the testImony, not close the PublIc Hearings, contInue the matters to the next meeting, allow the absent CommISSIon member to VIew the VIdeo tape of the meeting and then that CommIssIOner could partICIpate In the vote. Or, the CommIssIOn could take all the testImony, take a straw poll of the members pnor to formulatIng a formal motIon. If there was not a consensus, that Item could be contInued by a motIon to the next regular meeting VIce Chairman Dahlman asked the audIence If there was anyone present who wanted to request a contInuance? No one spoke MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by to take all testimony, take a straw poll of the Commissioners, if that vote is negative, continue the item's Public Hearing to the next regularly scheduled Planning Commission meeting. MOTION FAILS FOR LACK OF SECOND. 3. Conditional Use Permit #91-16 16281 PaCIfic Coast HIghway * Noel's Restaurant Staff Report Mr CurtIs delIvered the staff report [Staff report on file In the Planmng Department] The applIcant, Salvatore Cameha, IS requestIng an Indefimte extensIon of CUP #91-16, a permIt for an entertaInment cafe In conjunctIon WIth an eXIStIng restaurant at 16281 PaCIfic Coast HIghway (Noel's Restaurant) Mr CurtIS Said staff InSpected Noel's restaurant and found It to be complYing WIth all CIty condItIOns. AddItionally, staff receIved two verbal responses to the NotIce expressing support to the Indefimte extensIOn The Pohce Department has no reservatIons about approval Staff recommends approval subject to condItIons CommISSIon Comments VIce Chairman Dahlman asked DIrector WhIttenberg If the CIty had legIslatIOn pending on entertaInment permIts In the CIty? DIrector WhIttenberg Said staff was requested to Page 3 - PIannmg COIlum.StOll Mmule8 of October 7, 1992 . reVIew thIS Issue and a prelIm10ary report IS be10g prepared for CommIssIon conSIderation, no date has been establIshed for Its presentatIon. At the tIme thIs Issue was first dISCUSSed, one CommISSIon concern was that the new standards not Impact any eXIsting, currently lIcensed entertaInment locatIons. These locatIons would be Noel's, SpaghettIm's and Panda restaurants Staff feels thIS applIcatIon should proceed. CommISSIoner Ors1OI asked If any portIon of the new standards could be Imposed on currently lIcensed establIshments, for example, decIbel rat1Ogs. DIrector WhIttenberg saId current regulatIons reqUIre the nOIse at any establIshment comply WIth the CIty'S nOIse ord1Oance reqUIrements Enforcement for a complamt on nOIse would mean Planmng Department staff would take a nOIse meter and measure at the SIte If found to be vIolat1Og the nOIse ord1Oance, staff would (1) contact the management 10dIcatIng they are 10 VIolatIOn and develop a program to achIeve complIance, (2) If they cont1Oue to be 10 VIolatIon staff would schedule a hear10g before the Planmng CommISSIon to revoke the CUP or modIfy the condItIons of approval The tIme to do thIS would be two to three weeks to momtor the establIshment plus three to four weeks to schedule a Plann10g CommISSIOn hear10g About seven to ten weeks total . VIce ChaIrman Dahlman SaId he doesn't want to have two sets of rules on entertaInment --- one set for the new establIshments and another set for currently eXIstIng, lIcensed establIshments CommISSIOner Ors1OI saId he wondered If It would be better to leave the rules open, to allow for bnng10g currently lIcensed establIshments under the new rules. CommISSIOner Sharp SaId condItIon of approval #11 would gIve the CommISSIon the nght to revoke the CUP If any VIOlatIOn occurs PublIc HearIng VIce ChaIrman Dahlman opened the PublIc HearIng Salvatore Cameha * 16281 PaCIfic Coast HIghway Mr CamelIa 1Otroduced hImself as the owner of Noel's restaurant and SaId he would lIke to have hIS entertaInment lIcense extended 10defimtely He IS open five days a week, closed Monday and Tuesday . VIce ChaIrman Dahlman asked Mr WhIttenberg If there would be a cost or Inconvemence If the CommISSIon approved thIS CUP for one or two years? Mr WhIttenberg SaId the CommISSIon could condItIon ItS approval such that there be no applIcatIon fees for the renewal Mr WhIttenberg clanfied hIS prevIOUS statement on the nOIse ord1Oance. If the nOIse ord1Oance were changed, all new condItIons of the nOIse ord1Oance would automatIcally apply to all establIshments. However, the other condItIons --- the number of entertaIners, the type of entertaInment, the mghts allowed, requmng doors to be shut --- could not be reVISIted for change unless there's a VIolatIon and a CommISSIOn hearIng for revocatIon or modIficatIOn Therefore, grantIng a year's approval would allow the CommISSIon to reVIew the SItuatIon agaIn, take 1Oto account . . . Page 4 - PI4nnmg ComnuSSIOll Mmulcs of October 7. 1992 any other condItIons the CIty may be placIng on other entertainment lIcenses based on the on-goIng study No one In the audIence wIshed to speak In favor of or against thIS applIcatIon and the PublIc Heanng was closed CommIsslOn Comments STRA W MOTION: CommIsslOner OrSInI saId he had voted against thIS applIcatIon once but now would vote In favor because the applIcant has complIed WIth all condItIons and because the CIty has controls VIce Chairman Dahlman saId he would vote In favor because Mr CamelIa has a tremendous relatIonshIp wIth hIS neIghbors and the CUP IS not transferrable If he should sell MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Orsini to approve Conditional Use Permit #91-16 by the adoption of Resolution No. 92-29, thus indefinitely extending the entertainment at Noel's restaurant. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Sharp, Orsini, Dahlman Fife, Law *** 4. Conditional Use Pennit #92-2 101 Main Street, Smte 0 * SeaSIde Gnll Staff Report Mr. WhIttenberg delIvered the staff report. [Staff report on file In the Planmng Department] The applIcants, Ronald and Patncla Sesler, are requestIng Planmng CommIssIon revIew and approval to modIfy prevlOusly approved hours of operatIon for CUP #92-2 at the SeaSIde Gnll Staff recommended demal Staff mdIcated mne letters of opposItIon had been receIved at CIty Hall, these will be entered mto the Record CommIsslOn Comments CommISSlOner Sharp asked Mr WhIttenberg If, at the tIme the applIcant applIed, dId the CIty know what the ABC's restnctlOns were? Mr. WhIttenberg saId no The applIcatIon process necessItates the CIty approvIng a CUP pnor to the ABC makmg theIr determInatlOn When the request for modIficatIon was filed the applIcant knew what the ABC restnctIons were However, at that tIme staff dId not know and the applIcant may not have known about the ABC's SectIon 23803 and the one year tIme lImIt for modIficatIon of condItIons . . . Page 5 - PIllnwng ComnuSSlOlI Mmule8 of October 7. 1992 PublIc Heanng VIce Chairman Dahlman opened the PublIc Heanng The mne letters In opposItion were entered Into the Record wIthout readIng them Mr WhIttenberg wIll read In the names and addresses when testimony In opposItion occurs Ron Sesler * 101 Mam Street. SUIte 0 Mr Sesler Introduced hImself as the owner of the SeaSIde Gnll He stated he was unaware of the ABC's Section 23803 and the one year time lImIt for changIng condItions He stated thIS IS hIS fifth ABC lIcense The State of CalIforma allows servIng alcohol from 6 00 a m to 2 00 a m He presented the CommIssIon a petition WIth 400 SIgnatures. He SaId that under the ABC condItions, he can only be open to 11 00 pm, he would want the CommIssIon to conSIder that because hIS rent IS hIgh Each addItional hour of operatIOn helps defray hIS costs. VIce Chairman Dahlman questioned the petition, askIng If the SIgnatures were from Seal Beach reSIdents and what they are statIng Mr Sesler Said some of the SIgnatures are from Long Beach, they are hIS customers ConflIct of Interest - CommIssIoner OrSIm VIce Chairman Dahlman IndICated CommIssIoner OrSInI had prevIOusly expressed a conflIct of Interest when the Planmng CommIssIon conSIdered tills request ComllliSSIOner OrSInI Said he had straightened out hIS conflIct WIth the CIty Attorney John Baker * Seal Beach rNo Address GIven] Mr. Baker stated he IS a Seal Beach reSIdent, a busmess owner ill Seal Beach and past preSIdent of the Seal Beach BUSIness Owner's ASSOCIatIOn He spoke ill favor of thIS applIcatIOn He Said the applIcant should have been told up front that once the condItions of approval are set that no changes can be made for at least one year The CIty should have been aware of thIS ThIS IS unfaIr because he has no recourse The applIcant should be allowed the maxImum number of hours the ABC WIll allow hIm CommISSIOner Sharp clanfied that the applIcant was requestIng the hours of operation he wanted, not the Planmng CommIssIOn The applIcant could have requested longer hours In the begInmng Mr Baker Said the applIcant told hIm otherwIse, he SaId he had requested longer hours Mr Baker SaId anyone opemng a bUSIness IS held hostage untll they agree to the CommIssIOn's terms VIce Chairman Dahlman IndIcated the staff report says the other lIquor sellIng establIshments on Main Street, haVIng the same #41 ABC lIcense, have the same hours as thIS applIcant or close earlIer How IS that holdIng thIS applIcant hostage? Mr Baker Page 6 - P1annmg CommISSIOIl Mmutes of October 7, 1992 . satd "I don't see how hIS busIness IS any dIfferent than a bar Excuse me, "bar" IS not the term You know I dIdn't mean that We're talkIng about a restaurant that's dOIng busIness that sells lIquor Why should they be any dIfferent as far as hours go? The State sets our hours accordIng to the law It says we cannot sell before 600 a.m. or after 2 00 a. m " Mr Baker saId companng all the #41 ABC lIcenses was not the Issue, the Issue IS the ABC allows all establIshments to sell lIquor from 6.00 a.m to 2 00 am regardless of the type of ABC lIcense they hold. VIce ChaIrman Dahlman satd "I would lIke to see them close at 10 00 or 11 00 P m too If you want to know my OpInIOn" Mr Baker satd "I'm sure you would You'd lIke to see the whole street roll up at 11 00 pm". VIce Charrman Dahlman saId that was hIS personal OpInIOn but he was here not to express that or vote on that. He IS here to take publIc testImony Mr Baker saId In the early 1980's the CIty paId a lot of money to an advIsory commIttee who saId the town needs more restaurants and Improvements on MaIn Street. The CIty has not done much about the Improvements but has attracted restaurants It seems lIke the restaurants are restrIcted by the CIty but the State says they can sell lIquor to 2 00 a m . Nader TahvIldan * PapIllon's Restaurant. Seal Beach Mr TahvIldarI Introduced hImself as the owner of PapIllon's restaurant In Seal Beach. He spoke In favor of thIS applIcatIOn He saId the current economy IS so bad that everyone IS strugglIng. The CIty of Seal Beach IS broke and the CommIssIon should promote the bUSIness the restaurant owners were able to create ThIS would gIve more revenue to the CIty. CommIssIoner OrSInI asked Mr TahvIldan how much revenue hIS bar brought In between the hours of 11 00 P m to 1.00 a.m.? Mr TahvIldan saId the figure doesn't matter. CommIssIOner OrSInI saId that of $100 revenue, $7 75 of sales tax and $ 77 would go to the CIty. Should $ 77 to the CIty be at the expense of the neIghbors not beIng able to sleep tIll 2 00 a m nIghtly? Mr TahvIldan compared day-orne bUSInesses to nIght-tIme bUSInesses He noted each bUSIness must be open ItS maxImum hours to be successful . JeannIe Mans * Taco Surf. MaIn Street Mrs. Mans Introduced herself as the operator of Taco Surf restaurant She spoke In favor of thIS applIcatIOn She saId that when the restaurant owners purchased these restaurants they had to put theIr homes on the lIne to get the loans, they SIgned long term leases and they dId thIS wIth the IntentIOn of beIng able to run successful restaurants When the CIty restrIcts theIr hours It'S lIke takIng theIr success She saId she understands the resIdents don't want nOIse but there has to be a common denomInator The restaurant owners are gettIng tIred of strugglIng and suggested the CIty buy all the restaurants on MaIn Street and let the current owners out of theIr leases ThIS IS the worst recessIon In forty years and her landlord won't reduce her rent She asked the CommIssIOn to tell the owners how to help but asked them not to restnct theIr hours and thereby cuttIng theIr Income Page 7 - P1nnrung ComnuSSlO11 MInutes of October 7. 1992 . CommISSIoner OrSInI asked Mrs. Mans If Kmda Lahma was open to 1.30 am? Mr Mans saId he was not open to 1 30 am. Mr Mans saId he came before the CIty four years ago and was asked to take the same hours Jack Haley had --- 11 00 P m Sunday through Thursday, 12 00 a m Fnday and Saturday. CommIssIoner OrSInI asked Mrs Mans If she would extend those hours? Mrs. Mans saId yes, she would not extend the hours on a daIly baSIS but mIght want to on a certaIn occasIOn CommIssIoner OrSInI SaId that m a three block area on MaIn Street, If the hours were extended, seven addItIonal restaurants would be open to 1'00 a.m FIve are open now, you'd extend seven, and that would total eleven restaurants open to 1 00 a m. CommISSIoner OrSInI saId "Seal Beach IS a reSIdentIal communIty where a commerCIal stnp runs through It It's not a commerCIal communIty where reSIdences are around It CommerCIal came mto the mIddle of reSIdentIal You all have houses behmd you, excludmg one . m a three block area, as heavy as Belmont Shores IS, there IS nowhere m Belmont Shores you can walk three blocks and get thIrteen bars or restaurants" Mrs Mans SaId she was not askIng the PlannIng CommISSIOn to turn Seal Beach mto a "booze CIty", she saId the CommISSIOn IS tellmg the restaurant owners "thIS IS It you've got to do It thIs way" She SaId the maJonty of her food IS sold to ten or eleven o'clock She gets her rush for dmner at 9 00 P m . Doug Mans * Restaurant Owner * rNo Address Glvenl Mr Mans SaId he operates Taco Surf and Kmda Lahma restaurants m Seal Beach He SaId they are open to 10 00 P m at Taco Surf restaurant because". that's what we took to aVOId any further Issues and to get the CUP behmd us We don't lIke 10 00 o'clock because It'S very trade restnctIve We're not competItIve We can't be competItIve If we had the hours to 1 00 a m or 1.30 a m. lIke the other places, we would have the optIon. That's all we're askIng for, the optIon.. It'S dIscnmmatory, we can't compete WIth our neIghbor CItIes, we can't pay the rents that are gomg to be reqUIred m the future and we have no recourse . .". He read an excerpt from the State constItutIOn "The use of pnvate lands SUItable for VISItIng servmg commerCIal recreatIon faCIlItIes deSIgned to enhance publIc opportunItIes for coastal recreatIon have pnonty over pnvate reSIdentIal, general mdustnal or general commerCIal developments but not over agnculture or coastal dependent mdustnes". SectIOn 4, ArtIcle 10, State ConstItutIon of CalIfornIa VIce ChaIrman Dahlman agreed WIth Mr Mans that hIS hours are not competItIve because many restaurants have hours to 11 00 P m on holIdays and/or SpecIal events He suggested that If Mr Mans applIed to have hIS hours extended to 11'00 p m. he would probably not have a problem gettmg approval . MIchael Burn * rNo Address GIVen] Mr Burn SaId he IS a busmessman m Seal Beach employed by La Bas Llmousmes spoke m favor of the applIcatIon, saymg It'S a nIce, casual place to have dmner H . . . Page 8 - Plannmg COO1OlISSIOll Mmutes of October 7. 1992 Roger West * 1201A Electnc Avenue. Seal Beach Mr West SaId he has been a Seal Beach resIdent over twenty-five years He spoke m opposItIon to thIS applIcatIon and demanded the Planmng CommIssIon revoke CUP #92- 2 granted m May 1992, because they are m vIOlatIOn of the condItions they agreed to m the followmg ways' (1) They are not a bona fide eatIng place. He read SectIon 23038 of the Busmess and ProfessIonal Code, statIng SeaSIde Gnll serves mainly sandwIches and not meals. (2) TheIr CUP condItIons are not posted m theIr sales area. (3) They are not closmg m complIance wIth theIr agreed to hours of operation The cost of thIS hearmg, m staff tIme alone, added to the cost of the pnor hearIngs at the request of the applIcants far exceeds the revenue they WIll bnng to the CIty. The CIty taxpayers are paymg for "thIS nonsense", If they bnng m $100,000 m sales the CIty gets $1,000 He felt the CIty has spent more than $1,000 m the hearIngs alone. He SaId we don't need more beer sellmg establIshments. Main Street IS what the CIty IS, It'S the center of the CIty, "our heart" He felt beer halls detract from the CIty'S charm He SaId SeaSIde Gnll's only contnbutIon IS that It'S startIng to gIve Seal Beach the reputatIon for drunkenness and rowdmess DaVId Rosenmann * 208 EIghth Street. Seal Beach Mr Rosenmann agreed WIth Mr West's comments and spoke m opposItIon to tins applIcation He checked WIth the CIty Clerk yesterday and she stated she had not been asked to venfy any of the SIgnatures as bona fide voters or resIdents of Seal Beach The applIcants are asking for addItional hours when they are not complymg WIth the current condItions of CUP #92-2 He referenced a Planmng Department mformatIonal report prepared by Joan FIllmann WhICh stated ABC's ratIOS for Census Tract 995.05 are On-Sale Allowed = 8 On-Sale Have = 25 Off-Sale Allowed = 5 Off-Sale Have = 8 The report shows that on both categones Old Town IS over-lIcensed "The resIdents of Seal Beach moved here because It'S a laid-back resIdential town Whatever value the leases hold on Main Street IS due to the charm of the town, It'S a reSIdentIal dmmg VIllage, It'S not a dnnkIng village" Page 9 - Plannmg ComnuSSlO1l MInutes of October 7, 1992 . Norma Strohmeyer * Seal Beach fNo Address GIvenl Ms Strohmeyer spoke m OppOSItlOn to thIS apphcatIOn. She stated she has been a CIty resIdent for fifty years. She felt the speakers are trymg to convmce the Plannmg CommIssIOn they can save the CIty by opemng up some more bars on Mam Street. She felt keepmg all the restaurants open untll1.00 a.m. mIght put other places m bankruptcy. BIll Ayres * 707 Central A venue. Seal Beach Mr. Ayres spoke m OppOSItlon to thIS apphcatIOn. He Sald It was ludICroUS to attempt to draw a companson between a business such as a physIcIan's office and a bar He spoke about the resIdue of sellmg hquor --- nOise at night, unnatmg m pubhc places, generally dIsturbmg the peace He SaId he has no complalnts wIth the genume restaurants that serve alcohol when havmg a meal He IS complaInIng about the bar's resIdue The patrons that leave at 1 00 or 2 00 a. m are screammg and yellmg Seal Beach IS a bedroom commumty Somewhere there has to be a cut-off pomt where enough IS enough . Bruce Stark * Seal Beach rNo Address GIven] Mr Stark spoke In OppOSItIOn to thIS apphcatlon He suggested people dnve on Maln Street between Central Avenue and Ocean A venue after 10:00 p m. to see what thIS problem IS really hke It's appallmg. "You see the nff-raf hangmg around, lOItenng about wIth nothmg better to do than get mto trouble and ralse hell for the neIghbors who hve on the adJommg streets. " It's an unfavorable sItuatlon. He SaId there are eIght bars on Maln Street between Central and Ocean A venues and asked If thIS many were needed? He sald that If a restaurant owners says he has to sell hquor to make ends meet then that's a confeSSIOn he shouldn't be m the restaurant busmess He mdIcated that the CIty gets 1 % of the sales generated and that's not enough money to pay for the pohce problems m one week ThIS area IS a hIgh cnme area COmmISSIOner OrsmI explalned what he mterpreted the term "hIgh cnme area" to be Carla Watson * 1635 Catalma Avenue. Seal Beach Ms Watson spoke In OppOSItlon to thIS apphcatIOn on behalf of Seal Beach CItIzens Umted, a grass roots organIzatlon who IS very concerned about the envIronment of Seal Beach VIllage They are concerned about the prohferatlon of hquor hcenses on Maln Street, especIally concerned that more establIshments be allowed to stay open past 11 00 P m They enVlSlon Maln Street as a shoppmg and dmmg VIllage, not a dnnkmg town There are enough estabhshments already who cater to the late mght crowd. Most of Mam Street backs up to reSIdences They support the busmesses on Maln Street and want to see them thnve The would lIke to see many recommendatIOns of the former Downtown Task Force take effect --- more parkmg behmd busmesses and later shoppmg hours for those people who work She urged the Planmng CommISSIon to support staffs recommendatIOn and deny the applIcatIOn . Page 10 - PIanrnng ComnusSIOIl MInutes of October 7. 1992 . MItzIe Morton * Seal Beach rNo Address GIven] Mrs Morton spoke In opposItIon to thIS applIcatIOn She saId the resIdents have the nght to qUiet enjoyment of theIr property She stated MaIn Street has the hIghest concentratIOn of lIquor lIcenses In Seal Beach and Old Town has the hIghest cnme rate In the CIty. She saId the CIty has been generous by grantIng lIcenses and expansIons when they don't have the reqUIred parking spaces accordIng to the mUnICIpal Code ThIS was done because It was felt more restaurants would create the actIvIty needed to help the other merchants succeed and create more sales tax revenue for the CIty Good restaurants, not bars, were wanted MaIn Street IS becomIng a bar scene after the dInner hour. ThIS does not help the merchants who close early The reSIdents are shocked to find the CIty has no real power to Code enforce the condItIons already placed on the bars and restaurants TheIr books can't be audIted re food versus lIquor sales, they can't be fined or theIr lIcenses temporarIly suspended for vIOlatIons The only recourse the CIty has at present IS a costly and tIme-consumIng court procedure The merchants know thIS She urged a no vote She asked the CommIssIon what theIr understandIng of "clOSIng tIme" IS? The ABC's regulatIon for cloSIng IS "sales, servIce and/or consumptIon of alcoholIc beverages shall be permItted only between the hours of 8 00 a m to 11 00 P m each day of the week" They mean that by 11 00 P m all glasses should be removed from the tables and all dnnkIng stopped Is that what we mean also? . CommISSIOner OrSInI SaId most commumtIes have a "grace penod" or "last call" WhICh means a dnnk IS served up to 11 00 P m The "grace penod" IS about 20 mInutes. By 11 20 P m there should be no more customers In the establIshment DIrector WhIttenberg saId thIS Issue has never been raIsed But, staff would feel at cloSIng tIme the doors are closed, no new customers are allowed Into the establIshment. The eXIstIng customers would be gIven a reasonable amount of tIme to fimsh whatever food Items they may be eatIng When they are done they should leave the restaurant CommISSIOner Sharp SaId the Planmng CommIssIon has stIpulated that restaurants allow the ordenng of food from 30 to 45 mInutes before cloSIng Mrs Morton saId ABC saId SeaSIde GnU should not operate as "publIc premIse" or a bar. She stated she had done her own InveStIgatIng. She saId she sat outsIde SeaSIde GnU for two consecutive week-ends on Fnday and Saturday mghts She saId that on all four mghts they were In vIOlatIOn of the ABC's cloSIng hours They dIdn't close untIl 11 40 P m and 11 50 P m On October 3, 1992, she entered SeaSIde GnU at 10 40 pm, ordered a beer and at 11 10 p.m ordered another beer, she was served both tImes A group of her fnends came In after her and they were served at 10 59 p m They all stayed there and left at 11 40 P m The doors were wIde open She stated that she feels they are already been In vIOlatIOn after four months TheIr back door, WhICh IS another condItion and should remaIn closed at all times except for delIvenes, IS open constantly . She saId her problem IS WIth enforcement ABC IS understaffed and there IS no enforcement In the CIty Who can the CItIzens and reSIdents look to? UntIl CIty Code Page 11 - Planmng ConUUISSlOO MUlutes of October 7. 1992 . enforcement can be establIshed the CIty should be very careful and very strIct on the CUPs CommISSIoner Sharp asked Mrs Morton If she felt safe out by herself on Mam Street? Mrs Morton saId It was a very InterestIng expenence because there were a lot of people mIllIng around at mIdnIght, there were gangs, the polIce were there, someone had pulled a knIfe "Guys came out of Klnda LahIna wIth glasses and were partyIng In the parkIng lot A man came out of Clancy's wIth hIS cocktaIl glass, went over to Lahma". VIce ChaIrman Dahlman saId the first speaker raIsed Issues relatIve to revokIng thIS CUP but thIS not somethIng the PlannIng CommIssIon can do tOnIght, It'S not agendtzed . JulIana McCants * 1000 Electnc Avenue. Seal Beach Ms McCants spoke In OpposItIon to thIS applIcatIon She saId she felt SeaSIde GnllIS askIng for an extensIOn of hours when they have faIled theIr fIrst test by not complYIng wIth theIr condItIons of approval She told the restaurant owners that If theIr restaurants are not workIng wIthout sellIng lIquor then they're In the wrong town. "Work harder or get out" She saId "ThIS IS my town, thIS IS all of our town, and I'm not gOIng to let It get more corrupt than I've already seen progress It'S unfortunate that I can't get out of my car at 11 00 P m at nIght and not feel safe walkIng to my front door and alcohol IS related to thIS It leads to people haVIng to dnve home and usually drunk . these streets are filthy It'S not a town that I'm WIlling to come home to and yet I have every nght to come home to It and I'm gOIng to fight all I can to keep these last fresh bUSInesses that are pOppIng up from beIng open to 1 00 a m -- forget It" Charles Antos * 328 17th Street. Seal Beach Mr Antos spoke In OpposItIon to thIS applIcatIOn The Downtown Task Force report dId say more restaurants should be encouraged It also SaId the CIty should look to get a publIc parkIng lot on MaIn Street and targeted a lot In the 300 block of MaIn Street. The first thIng the CIty dId was to permIt a buIldIng to go In there WIthout the reqUIred parkIng Another Task Force recommendatIOn was that all bUSInesses should proVIde some parkIng on SIte The CIty allowed a bUSIness to go In WIth no parkIng on SIte The CIty Itself has been neglIgent In follOWIng the recommendatIOns of the Downtown Task Force that they paId a lot of money to He read a letter from Charles Greenberg of Ball, Hunt, Heart, Brown & Berowltz January 14, 1985 regardIng Hennessey's restaurant The letter noted the same thIngs you're hearIng tOnIght NothIng has changed In seven years He urged the CommIssIon to thInk about what the CommIssIon's polICIes and decISIOns are dOIng The CommIssIOn needs to figure out what thIS IS dOIng and what the Impact IS gOIng to be on CIty reSIdents . Kenneth RadclIff * 4880 Hazelnut. Seal Beach Mr. RadclIff spoke In OpposItIon to thIS applIcatIon He SaId the CIty will not gaIn anythIng pOSItIve by allOWIng bars to stay open later The merchants are beIng greedy . . . Page 12 - Plannmg COIIumSSlO1l Mmutes of October 7. 1992 and want to make money over the nghts of resIdents who have lIved here many years before the busInesses were open Gall Olsen * Seal Beach rNo Address GIVen] Mrs Olsen spoke In opposItIon to thIS apphcatIon She presented a petItIon WIth 82 SIgnatures to the CommIssIon In opposItIon to thIS applIcatIon. She urged the CommIssIon to deny thIS request Reva Olsen * Seal Beach rNo Address GIven] Ms. Olsen spoke In oppOSItIon to thIS applIcatIon She referenced the letter from Charles Greenberg presented by Mr Antos She saId Mr. Greenberg IS supposed to be an authonty on land use. He stated that there should be an EIR whenever you IntensIfy the use of a property The CIty wIlhngly aVOided thIS and put In taverns Honky tonks WIll destroy property values In the whole CIty IntensIfYIng a use wIthout an EIR IS Illegal and thIS IS subjectIng the CIty to lawsUIts CommISSIoner Sharp smd he IS not gOIng to vote on CUP #92-2 tomght, he would abstaln He felt the Planmng CommISSIOn could not honestly vote on tills tomght because the ABC has saId they WIll not grant any changes for a year. No posItIve actIon can be taken Any motIon on hIS part would be to have It come back before the CommISSIon In mne months ThIS would be wIthout prejUdIce so the applIcant would not have to pay fees VIce Chmrman Dahlman asked CommISSIOner Sharp If he was saYIng he would not vote to deny thIS apphcatIon? CommISSIOner Sharp smd he was not saYIng he would vote eIther for or agaInst thIS apphcatIon He saId he was not gOIng to vote on It because the CommISSIOn has no control over It because ABC already controls It. VIce Chmrman Dahlman smd thIS PublIc HearIng IS gOing to have to be contInued CommISSIOner OrSInI saId the CommISSIon should take the remamIng publIc testImony Then contInue the Pubhc Hearing After the PublIc Hearing dISCUSS whether we're gOIng to vote on It He saId "I'm objectIng to all of It" Brent Matthews * Seal Beach rNo Address GIvenl Mr Matthews spoke In opposItIon to thIS apphcatIon He saId he has hved In Seal Beach about thIrty years Due dIhgence IS the responsIbIlIty of the bUSInessman ThIS Includes famIhanty wIth the laws and CUPs and the nature of the area In WhICh he IS operatIng hIS bUSIness In hIS ten years hVIng on EIghth Street he has seen a substantIal IntensIficatIon of usage on Mmn Street He IS concerned that allOWIng later hours would also accelerate rent Increases and make It less deSIrable to lIve In Old Town Increased hours would not be a benefit to anyone He referenced the ABC InformatIonal report wntten by Ms FIllmann, saYIng he was "stunned by the reports of cnme In zone 7" . . . Page 13 - Plannmg CommlSSIOO Mmutes of October 7. 1992 hIgh cnme and 531 cnmes were reported m 1991 m the Mam Street area COmmtSSIoner OrsmI satd "The cnme area IS MalO Street and PacIfic Coast HIghway, It does not enter mto 8th Street and 10th Street It's commercIal area It's zoned . the way they break It up ABC-wIse, IS stnctly that commercIal IS the zone The house IS not mcluded on 8th Street even though It nght backs up to It That IS not m the cnme area. It's a whole dIfferent way the way they break It up. If take a look at the 5-11's (drunk dnvmg arrests), you'll find there's a lot of them happemng on PacIfic Coast HIghway" Mr Matthews SaId "WIth all due respect, thIS sounds ltke a lot of manure. When I ltve 100 feet from a dIStnCt reportIng 531 cnmes I'm nght there" CommIssIoner OrsmI satd he legally dId not ltve m the dIStnCt Joe Palmer * 3911 WIstena St . Seal Beach Mr. Palmer SaId he came to thIS meetIng WIth about 150 other people to see how the Planmng CommIssIon would vote He SaId he was very angry that he sat here for two hours and CommISSIOner Sharp has decIded not to vote He thought It should be voted on tomght and theIr tIme should not be wasted whIle he refused to vote He thought they should mSIst CommISSIOner Sharp vote Letters m OpposItIOn Mr WhIttenberg SaId the followmg mne (9) letters have been receIved opposmg CUP #92-2 1 Seal Beach ReSIdentIal Homeowners AssocIatIOn Gordon A Shanks, Intenm PresIdent 2 Mrs Ross V (Can't read the last name) 134 MaIn Street 3 Mrs ModIe Fox 801 Ocean Avenue 4 Steve & MIChelle Constantmo 805 Ocean Avenue 5 Charles & Mane Tozer 717 Ocean Avenue 6. CynthIa & Normal Shelman 115 8th Street 7 BIll Gerlach 126 8th Street Page 14 - Plannmg ConunISSlon Mmutes of October 7, 1992 . 8 Frank & AlIce VICenCIa 801 Ocean Avenue, #2 9. Mrs. Fremont E Wood 116 MalO Street VIce ChaIrman Dahlman added that Wendy Rothman and Wendy Moms and John Reynolds had telephoned hIm. They SaId they could not attend tomght but were opposed to thIS applIcatIOn He also submItted, for the Record, Mr. Greenberg's letter subffiltted by Mr Antos . Ron Sesler * Rebuttal Comments Mr Sesler SaId he found It "a lIttle weIrd" that a restaurant wIth a #41 lIcense was asked to close early when If they had a #47 lIcense he could stay open later He has been a Seal Beach resIdent for mne years. He SaId they are servmg a lot of food, not Just a few hamburgers He SaId at clOSIng time, whether It'S 10'00 or 11 00 pm, he turns hIS SIgn off and qUItS servmg He allows the people to fimsh up and at that pomt he starts stackmg chaIrs and commences cleanIng He does not serve past that hour CommIssIOner OrsmI asked If hIS doors were still open? Mr Sesler SaId yes, the Frre Code demands the doors remaIn open any time the publIc IS mSlde He SaId he does not have panIC hardware VIce ChaIrman Dahlman asked Mr Sesler about the allegations that he IS not dlsplaymg the CIty'S CondItions of Approval, IS leavmg the rear door open when It should be closed and IS staYIng open later than the hours specIfied as requrred by the CUP Mr Sesler SaId "No, they're false 10 that The back door IS generally left open for ventilatIOn, It allows an ocean breeze through Like I SaId, If we close. . tomght It'S ten o'clock, we'll close at 10 00 We'll allow the publIc to contmue dnnkrng or eating whatever they have 10 front of them Sometimes It'S thIrty or forty-five mmutes We don't rush 'em We're a famIly place People nde bIcycles and walk 10 from adJomIng apartments and houses" Mr Sesler continued, "I have one other comment Mr OrsmI, you say that there's a lot of restaurants and bars 10 town. Why IS It you opened Tootsle's If there's too many?" CommIssIoner OrsmI SaId "Because It'S good bUSIness But If you notice, the hours are there and you don't see them 10 for a CUP" Mr Sesler SaId "If you belIeve that after from 10 00 p m to 11 00 P m IS only $ .77, that may be why you had to sell your restaurant" CommIssIoner OrsmI SaId "That's pOSSIble" MOTION by Orsini to close the Public Hearing. No second. . Mr WhIttenberg SaId If the motion IS to close the PublIc Hearmg" what you may do at thIS pOInt IS have dIScussIon among the CommIssIOners wIthout tak10g any action on the PublIc Hearmg Once you've had your diScussIon, If you feels It'S appropnate, to continue the PublIc HearIng to receIve additional teStimony at a future date then you may do that at that time" VIce ChaIrman Dahlman SaId he would prefer to reserve hIS Page 15 - Planmng ComnUSSIOIl Mmutes of October 7, 1992 . comments untIl he heard all the publIc testImony. CommIsSIOner OrSInI saId he was not gOIng to reserve hIS comments No one wIshed to speak further and VIce ChaIrman Dahlman closed the PublIc Heanng. . CommISSIon Comments CommISSIOner OrSInI SaId he was watchIng a mOVIe In whIch a Judge told a slumlord he would have to lIve In hIs own tenement as pUnIshment He saId "It IS amazIng how the changes started happenIng The people who lIve In Old Town lIve wIth the SItuatIon. Many busInesses close up and there IS no nOIse. JustIce IS when you stay open tIll 2 00 a m and you have to lIve behInd It and the guy next to you stays open tIll 4.00 a m --- try to go to sleep Then you've got JustIce But we don't have that. Now we have someone who doesn't want to vote tomght because he doesn't lIve In thIS area He doesn't lIve wIth It So what's gOIng to happen? The same thIng that happens all the tIme It's gOIng to get tabled, and tabled, and tabled It's totally ndlculous The same WIth the entertaInment came up That wasn't supposed to be tabled That's been tabled for three months It should have been done when the RenaIssance came In and It was stopped then No Let's start tablIng And now we've got thIS. If you're not gOIng to vote, vote one way or the other OK I realtze two CommISSIOners are gone I can understand one One of them I'm haVIng a lIttle trouble understandIng Anyways, If you're gOIng to make a stand, make a stand "yes" or make a stand "no" But after all mght, after all the testImony The only people who should really be votIng on thIS are the people that lIve behInd these bUSInesses. We're only up here representIng them. It's theIr streets They lIve WIth the bUSIness In front of them Nobody else. You know, we're up here trYIng to vote for ten people who lIve behInd thIS restaurant You're tryIng to tell them "Too bad, you've got to stay up every mght. And I'm sorry, I have trouble WIth that. Those are the people who should come and Just SImple vote and end It. Because they're the ones who have to lIve WIth It You know, we're votIng and we're telling people what they have to lIve WIth And I'm sorry, I have troubles WIth that because It'S not nght And If I got a maJonty that lIve behInd a bUSIness and they don't want It open later, that's the only vote that's even lOgICal. So I'm haVIng a lot of trouble WIth thIS And especIally carryIng thIS on and tablIng It and tablIng It I thInk It stInks By the way, can I get a CUP for a lIquor lIcense In LeIsure World In the mIddle by the golf course and run a bar all mght? Then all of a sudden everybody will vote But, I'm sorry, I have trouble WIth that Because LeIsure World know, It'S nIce to go to a bar It's mce to go lIsten to a pIano bar But why Impose It on people that don't want It when they lIve there" CommISSIOner Sharp saId "You really don't want me to come down to your level and argue about LeIsure World do you?" . CommISSIOner Orslm SaId "Yes Because I'll get Into It I'd love to open up a bar In the mIddle of LeIsure World on the golf course I know I can make a fortune on the golf course Even more than $ 77 And I'll tell you the truth, I bet If I can get a lIcense to . . . Page 16 - Plnnwng ComnUSSIOlI Mmutes of October 7, 1992 open a lIquor lIcense and open up a restaurant In the mIddle of LeIsure World, I got about five restaurant owners out here that are WIllIng to JOIn me And then we can have seven or ten bars In LeIsure World". CommISSIOner Sharp saId "No, I don't want to respond to Mr OrSInI Because there are two CommIsSIOners absent, because of the ABC restrIctIons and everythIng, I am gOIng to eIther abstaIn, If there IS a motIOn made, otherwIse, If there's a motIon made to table thIS and have It come back before us WIth no -- I don't remember the words we have to use so that he doesn't have to pay a fee In mne months when the ABC restrIctIons are off of It so that we can make an honest OpInIOn -- I would vote for that Mr. WhIttenberg explaIned what the staff recommendatIOn IS to clanfy the Issue The recommendatIOn before the CommISSIon IS to deny the request as presented The SeaSIde Gnl1Is scheduled to come before the CommISSIon for ItS one year reVIew at a future date and tIme, baSIcally In May 1993. In May 1993 the SeaSIde Gnll WIll be before the CommISSIon for an Indefimte extensIon of theIr ABC lIcense It WIll be a PublIc Heanng Property owners WIthIn 300' WIll be notIfied Any actIOn tomght WIll not affect the May 1993 CommISSIOn reVIew VIce ChaIrman Dahlman saId that due to the publIc testImony receIved tomght and from telephone calls he receIved thIS matter WIll be due for an enforcement Issue Very specIfic allegatIons have been made CommISSIOner OrSInI saId thIS WIll be reVIewed In mne months and the CommISSIon IS nght back to tablIng agaIn He SaId "I'm not motIOmng anythIng, I'm not secondIng anythIng I want to vote If he wants to abstaIn, then let hIm abstaIn But to me, If you look at the Issue, It'S been In front of us OK It's eIther a "yes" or a "no" I'm sorry, the abstaImng I have problems WIth To me It's eIther a "yes" or a "no" You're In favor of extendIng It or you're not In favor of extendIng It" VICe ChaIrman Dahlman SaId hIS only problem WIth that IS the techmcal InterpretatIon proVIded by the staff IS that If the CommISSIOn does not have three votes, that the applIcatIon IS demed He SaId" And I have trouble WIth the procedure I don't thInk that one person should have the power to deny or pass an applIcatIOn and that's what happens when we have three CommISSIoners under thIS new rule that the CIty CouncIl has gIven US So I wouldn't want to test that rule unless you InSISt In whIch case, we'll Just do It But I don't recommend It I thInk that It could get Involved In some legal questIons and we pay enough legal bIlls" Mr WhIttenberg SaId If the absent CommISSIoners reVIew the tape of tomght's PublIc HearIng and IndIcate, pnor to takIng a vote on the matter, that they have reVIewed the tape of the meetIng CommISSIOner Sharp saId ChaIrman FIfe would not be present for the October 21, 1992 Planmng CommISSIon meetIng The November 4th Planmng CommISSIOn meetIng would probably have five CommISSIoners . . . Page 17 - Plannmg COflUDlSSIOII Mmu~s of October 7. 1992 VIce ChaIrman Dahlman saId m two meetIngs there would be five CommIssIoners present He Joked, "And besIdes you would have tIme to think about Mr Sharp Right? You'll probably sIde wIth US". CommISSIoner Sharp saId "I don't know that I'm not wIth you now But I Just don't think that we have the nght to make that declSlon. I think we need all five of 'em here And I don't think because of the ABC that the three of us have the nght to make It I'm not gomg to vote, I'm gOing to abstaIn. Penod" VIce ChaIrman Dahlman saId that gIven that informatIon he would make the follOWIng motIOn MOTION by Dahlman; SECOND by Sharp to continue the Public Hearing on Conditional Use Pennit #92-2 to the November 4, 1992 Planning Commission meeting. MOTION FAILS: A YES: NOES: ABSTAIN: ABSENT: 2-0-1-2 Dahlman, Sharp None Orsini Fife, Law CommISSIoner OrSinI SaId "I'm not voting Any WhICh way you want to do It If you want to call It an abstaIn, you call It I'm not hIttIn' nothIn" DIrector WhIttenberg SaId he wanted to reVIew the mumcIpal Code on thIS vote He belIeved the Code pertaIns to a development actIon VIce ChaIrman Dahlman consIdered calling a recess He then SaId "I'm adVIsed that the MotIon to contInue tIll two weeks from now IS a valId motIOn on a maJonty vote of those present November 4th thIS heanng wIll contInue... ". Mr. WhIttenberg saId thIS PublIc Heanng WIll be contInued WIthout addItIonal NotIce Staff WIll proVIde a supplemental staff report to recap Issues dISCUSsed thIS evemng and respond to concerns of indIVIduals on both SIdes *** CommISSIOner OrSinI SaId "Before we have our report, Since we're dOing contInuatIons, I mIght as well tell you nght now, I'm gOing to vote that all of these be approved So If anybody dIsagrees WIth any of It, they mIght as well contInue It now" CommISSIoner Sharp saId "I have no dIsagreement WIth that" VIce ChaIrman Dahlman saId "Why don't we take them all together then?" DIrector WhIttenberg saId It would be fine to combine the PublIc Heanngs for PublIc Heanng purposes but a separate vote would be needed for each one of the applIcations VIce ChaIrman Dahlman saId the . . . Page 18 - PIannmg ComnuSSIOO Mmutes of October 7. 1992 CommISSIoners have read all the staff reports and suggested a short summary of staffs OpInIOnS of the ments or dements of each Issue WIthout readIng the entIre staff report would be In order The CommIssIoners agreed. Staff went through each of the eIght (8) HeIght VanatIon requests, commentIng generally as a group DIrector WhIttenberg reVIewed the Items for reVIew. 5. Height Variation #92-14 116 Thirteenth Street Applicants: James & Marjorie Yeager 6. Height Variation #92-16 206 Eleventh Street Applicants: Roger Elliott 7. Height Variation #92-17 120 First Street Applicant: David Werkheiser 8. Height Variation #92-18 101 Ocean A venue Applicant: David Abell 9. Height Variation #92-19 103 Ocean A venue Applicants: C. Edward & Katherine DUkes 10. Height Variation #92-20 242 Fourteenth Street Applicant: Earl Shea 11. Height Variation #92-21 340 Coastline A venue Applicants: Louis & Pat Elliano 12. Height Variation #92-15 1215 Seal Way Applicant: Joseph Ribal These are requests for approval of eXIstIng covered roof access structures (CRASs) WhICh were built In preVIOUS years In accordance WIth the CIty standards In effect at that tIme All the applIcatIons receIved buIldIng permIts and went through the appropnate reVIew process The reVIew process was an over-the-counter reVIew In the PlannIng Department . . . Page 19 - P1annmg COllUmS.,Oll Mmutes of October 7. 1992 at staff level. There were no reqUired heanngs before the Planmng CommIssIOn. HeIght VanatIOn #92-15 for 1215 Seal Way Street dId go through the Planmng CommIssIon reVIew process 10 1986 and the staff recommendatIOn IS to approve It wIthout condIoons Regard10g the other applIcatIOns, staff has no major concerns WIth any of them except for HeIght VanatIOn #92-17 for 120 FIrst Street The roofing matenal for the CRAS does not match the house's roofing matenal The CRAS roof IS sh10gle and the house's roofing IS slate Staff recommends the CommIssIOn request the CRASs' roofing matenal be removed at a future date and be replaced WIth slate to match the house. In all the other applIcatIOns the roofing matenals for the house and CRAS match The SIze of those CRASs IS larger than what has been adopted by the recent CommIssIon polIcy statement. Staff recommended approval except for HeIght Vanaoon #92-17 The CommIsSIon may reqUire addIoonal modIficaoons For HV #92-17 staff would recommend thIS Item be cont1Oued If the CommIsSIOn wants the roofing matenal of the CRAS changed to match the house Staff would want to confer WIth the CIty Attorney's Office and WIth the Eng10eenng Department to determ10e a proper amorozatIOn penod to allow the owner to wnte off the cost of the eXIsong roof before they would have to replace It Regard10g HV #92-15, VIce Chairman Dahlman asked If the roofing matenal of the CRAS matched the house? Mr WhIttenberg saId there were dIffenng roof pItches but the remodelIng 10 the front pretty much matches the roof deck structure Itself Staff showed a photograph of thIS to the CommIsSIon PublIc Heanng HeIght VanatIOn #92-14 * 116 ThIrteenth Street James Yeager was present but dId not comment HeIght VanatIOn #92-16 * 206 Eleventh Street Roger EllIOtt dId not speak Mr WhIttenberg saId a letter was receIved from Mr EllIott [Attached for the Record]. HeIght VanatIOn #92-17 * 120 FIrst Street DaVId WerkheIser Said he had an archItect deSIgn a custom house It was a conSCIOUS declSlon to have a dIfferent roofing matenal on the CRAS The slate was Imported from Ch10a and was very expenSIve The archItect decIded the CRAS was set more than 2/3 back on the lot and was not easIly VISIble. The CRAS roofing matenal does match the house tnm and It blends 10 reasonably well It would cost about $7,000 to put slate on the CRAS roof . . . Page 20 - PIannmg ComouSSIOll Mmules of October 7. 1992 HeIght VanatIOn #92-18 * 101 Ocean Avenue DavId Abell asked for an approval HeIght VanatIOn #92-19 * 103 Ocean Avenue Edward DIlkes presented photographs He saId hIS "crows nest" or CRAS has had no mtenor Improvements Two moveable chaIrs are there HeIght VanatIon #92-20 * 242 Fourteenth Street Earl Shea saId hIS landIng IS less than 35 square feet and the remaInder of the CRAS IS a staIrway of about 100 square feet. He stated he re-roofed the house about eIght months ago and the same roofing matenal was used throughout HeIght VanatlOn #92-21 * 340 Coasthne Avenue LoUIS Elhano saId hIS remodel was done In 1990 HeIght VanatIon #92-15 * 1214 Seal Way Joseph RIbal dId not speak Roger Elhott * 206 Eleventh Street. Seal Beach Mr Elltott saId he found It totally ObjectIOnable to have to be before the Planmng CommIssIOn to answer questions to an ordInance WhICh he followed MakIng a new law retroactIve was unbehevable to hIm HIS IS a gabled roof not a flat roof The actual floor space IS less than 120 square feet because of the staIrwell He felt there would be a laWSUIt If thIS was not approved VIce ChaIrman Dahlman explaIned the ordmance whIch allowed for CRASs was very loosely worded and a few people tned to maxImIze theIr use/abuse of the current rules and apparently saw It as a thIrd story. He saw no problem WIth Mr. EllIott's CRAS, It IS a CRAS WhIch IS sltghtly larger than the basIC cntena These are bemg reVIewed IndIVIdually so the CommIssIOn doesn't approve any thIrd stones No one WIshed to speak further for or agamst these applIcations and the PublIc Heanng was closed CommISSIon Comments CommISSIoner OrSInI explaIned he dIdn't belIeve In teanng down or changIng somethIng that's been bUIlt WIth a permIt He does not want to see the SIze of CRASs keep Increasmg MOTION by Orsini; SECOND Sharp by to approve Height Variation #92-14 for a CRAS at 116 Thirteenth Street by the adoption of Resolution No. 92-31. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Orsini, Dahhnan, Sharp Fife, Law . . . Page 21 - PIannmg COOumSSIOO Mmutes of October 7, 1992 *** MOTION by Orsini; SECOND Sharp by to approve Height Variation #92-16 for a CRAS at 206 Eleventh Street by the adoption of Resolution No. 92-33. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Orsini, Dahlman, Sharp Fife, Law *** MOTION by Orsini; SECOND Sharp by to approve Height Variation #92-17 for a CRAS at 120 First Street by the adoption of Resolution No. 92-34. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Orsini, Dahlman, Sharp Fife, Law *** MOTION by Orsini; SECOND Sharp by to approve Height Variation #92-18 for a CRAS at 101 Ocean Avenue by the adoption of Resolution No. 92-35. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Orsini, Dahlman, Sharp Fife, Law *** MOTION by Orsini; SECOND Sharp by to approve Height Variation #92-19 for a CRAS at 103 Ocean A venue by the adoption of Resolution No. 92-36. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Orsini, Dahlman, Sharp Fife, Law *** MOTION by Orsini; SECOND Sharp by to approve Height Variation #92-20 for a CRAS at 242 Fourteenth Street by the adoption of Resolution No. 92-37. MOTION CARRIED: AYES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Orsini, Dahlman, Sharp Fife, Law *** . . . Page 22 - Plannmg ComnuSSlO1l Mmutes of October 7. 1992 MOTION by Orsini; SECOND Sharp by to approve Height Variation for a CRAS at 340 Coastline by the adoption of Resolution No. 92-38. #92-21 MOTION CARRIED: A YES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Orsini, Dahbnan, Sharp Fife, Law *** MOTION by Orsini; SECOND Sharp by to approve Height Variation #92-15 for a CRAS at 1215 Seal Way by the adoption of Resolution No. 92-32. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: ABSENT: 3-0-2 Orsini, Dahbnan, Sharp Fife, Law *** VIce ChaIrman Dahlman commented that the CRAS as 1215 Seal Way was prevIously approved and It'S a rather large, spaCIOUS CRAS It was bUIlt about a year ago ORAL COMMUNICATIONS There were no oral commumcatIons from the audIence ST AFF CONCERNS There were no staff concerns COMMISSION CONCERNS There were no CommIssIOn concerns ADJOURNMENT VIce ChaIrman Dahlman adjourned the meetmg at 10 15 P m Respectfully SubmItted ~O~~~~ Joan FI11mann, Recordmg Secretary Approval' The Planmng CommIssIOn Mmutes of October 7, 1992 were approved by the Planmng CommIssIon on November 4, 1992, *