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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Min 1994-02-23 . . . I " CITY OF SEAL BEACH PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AGENDA of FEBRUARY 23, 1994 7:30 P.M. 1c City Council Chamber's 211 Eighth Street, Seal Beach, CA Next Resolution: #94-8 I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ll. ROLL CALL ill. CONSENT CALENDAR 1. Minutes of February 9, 1994 IV. SCHEDULED MATTERS 2. AdoptIOn of Resolution #94-6 Conditional Use Permit #94-1 for Radisson Hotel Denying Alcohol Land Use Permit 3. Adoption of Resolution #94-2 CUP #92-26 for Tortilla Beach Restaurant 4. Receive and File: "Air Qualtty Element of the General Plan - Techmcal Rep011 v. PUBLIC HEARINGS 5. Conditional Use Per'mit #93-15 [Continued from 1-5-94, 1-19-94, 2-9-94] Addre5t5t: 900 Ocean A venue Business: Ruby's Restaurant Applicant: Lee Riley/Ruby's Restaurant Propel1y Owner: City of Seal Beach Request: To remodel and expand an existing restaurant (Ruby's) through the addition of approximately 765 square feet of outdoor seating area (south end of municipal pier), a 170 square foot multipm'pose room (north side of the restaur'ant), adding a wooden monument sign (30 square feet), a new gar'age to house a private tram for transpol1ing customers, a lar'ger trash enclosure and new landscaping at foot of pier. The remodel will integrate the existing restl'Ooms into the interior of the restaurant and add new . . . Page 2 Planmn!, COlI/lI/lSllOn A!,wda JOI I eblumy 23 19901 exterIOr restr ooms for pubhc access VI. ORAL COl\1MUNICATIONS VII. STAFF CONCERNS VIII. COMMISSION CONCERNS IX. ADJOURNMENT 771< (IIV of S, al B, ach COlllp!U I Wllh Ih, Alii, ncalll Wllh Dl\ab1l1ll<1 Ac( oJ 1990 If you nqll1n Ip<cllll all/llallC< 10 all<lld (i/ palllcrpal< In Ih" IIIUllIIg p!cal< call1h< Clly CluJ.. \ Office at (310) 431 2527 at leal! 48 hOIll \ 1'"01 (0 Ih< lIIallll~ Page 3 Plannmg Comnllmon A[,wda fOI I Lh, umy 23 199.J . 1994 AGENDA FORECAST MAR 09 CITY DEADUNE. FED 02 CUP #93-2/901 Ocean/Kmda Lahiuna @ 12 mos/ ABC MAR 23 CITY DEADLINE FEB 16 [No new apphcatlons received by deadlme date] APR 06 CITY DEADLINE MAR 02 CEQA Study SessIOn APR 20 CITY DEADUNE- MAR 16 MAY 04 CITY DEADLINE MAR 30 MA Y 18 CITY DEADLINE APR 13 ]UN 08 CITY DEADLINE MAY 04 CUP #92-19/Clancy's @ 12 mos/mdefmlte extenSIOn JUN 22 CITY DEADLINE. MAY 18 JUL 06 CITY DEADLINE JUN 01 . ElectIOn of Chairman & Vice Chall man CUP #92-2/101 Mam/SeaSlde GIIII/Revlew hours extenSIOn JUL 20 CITY DEADLINE. JUN 15 AUG 03 ClTY DEADLINE JON 29 CUP #92-2611 eVlew of TOl1111a Beach for I ecelpt of ABC he & conditIOns AUG 17 CITY DEADLINE JUL 13 SEP 07 CITY DEADLINE A DC 03 SEP 21 CITY DEADLINE AVe 17 OCT 05 CITY DEADLINE: AUO 31 OCT 19 CITY DEADLINE: SEP 14 . 771< e'l) of S(ol Beach cOlI/f'h(\ v,,,h IhL AlI/u/cW!1 w"h DllalJ/11I1(\ Ac/ of 1990 If YOII /(qlllIL If'(ctal a\\/\IOlla 10 al/Llld (II f'OlllUf'OIL 111 /h/l lIIa/l/111 f'lcol( wll /h( Lily Uuk I O{fia at (10) 4U 2527 at [((lit 4R hOlIl ~ 1'1701 /0 /he III( LlII111 Page 4 Plannmg Con/JI/LIslOn Al,enda /01 / ,hlUwy 23 /994 . NOV 09 CITY DEADLINE- OCT 05 NOV 23 CITY DEADLINE' OCT 19 DEe 07 CITY DEADLINE NOY 02 CUP #93-13/Paplllon's @ 12 mos /mdef exten of entertamment DEC 21 CITY DEADLINE: NOY 16 STAFF REPORTS PENDING. NOT AGENDIZED . ZTA #92-2 Entel1amment Cafes ACTION City-wide polley statement on entertamment ST A TUS Pendmg City Manager's mput . ZTA # -- CI est view/PatIO Setbacks ACTION ZTA needed ST A TUS DlrectOl to pi epm e staff report . 1995 JAN CUP #92-13/143 Mam/Paplllon's/12 mos entel1amment CUP #92-25/1400 PCR/Glldel Inn/mdefmlte extensIOn 771< Lrf) of Sail Bwch COli/pilL' ,,,,h Iln AII/u/cam "'1Ih Dl\alnltll<' ACI of /990 If }Oll I<qllllL ,{'((/(/I a\\/I/(/IlCL 10 alulld {IJ pm/(clpale III Ih/~ II/"'III~ {'lul\( call lit, ell} C/u!.., O[!i(( al (VO) 4V 2527 at hal/ 48 hOIll ~ {'I/OJ 10 III< 11/" IIII~ . . . . CITY OF SEAL BEACH PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 23, 1994 The Plannmg CommISSIon of the CIty of Seal Beach met in regular seSSIon at 7: 30 p m wIth Charrman Dahlman ca11mg the meetmg to order WIth the Salute to the Flag. ROLL CALL Present: Charrman Dahlman CommIssIoners Soukup, Law, Sharp, Campbell Also Present. Department of Development ServIces CraIg Steele, ASSIStant CIty Attorney Lee Wluttenberg, Drrector Barry CurtIs, AdmmIstrahve ASSIStant Joan Fillmann, Execuhve Secretary CONSENT CALENDAR 1. Minutes of February 9, 1994 MOTION by Law; SECOND by Campbell to approve the Minutes of February 9, 1994 with a correction at page 11, paragraph 4, change"... was free, alcoholic drinks included, " to "... was free, beer and wine included, " MOTION CARRIED: AYES: 5-0-0 Law, Campbell, Sharp, Dahlman, Soukup SCHEDULED MATTERS 2. Adoption of Resolution #94-6 Conditional Use Permit #94-1 for Radisson Hotel Denying Alcohol Land Use Permit Charrman Dahlman saId he would have voted dIfferently on CUP #94-1 at the February 9th meehng had he thought to separate the hOSpItalIty SUIte from the controlled access beverage cabinets He queshoned what the applIcant would prefer, for the Plannmg CommIssIOn to modIfy thIS resoluhon allowmg the controlled access beverage cabmets or to have tlus resoluhon SIgned now, denymg the applIcahon, so they could appeal to the CIty Councll. Mr. WhIttenberg saId therr February 9th teshmony mdIcated they applIed for the hOSpItalIty SUIte, not mtendmg to use It illlhally, but seelang approval m case they wanted to use It at a later date. . . . Page 2 - PIanmng CommISSIon MInutes of February 23, 1994 COmmISSIOner Soukup saId ills concerns were larger than Just the hOSPItahty sUIte, not1Og he dId not favor access to hquor 10 72 rooms consIdermg the over concentratIon of hquor hcenses 10 that census tract He was not 10 favor of modIfy1Og the pnor demal COmmISSIOner Law saId she IS 10 favor of both the hOSPItahty room and the controlled access beverage cabznets The hOSPItahty room would have been useful for conventIons et cetera Charrman Dahlman saId he could not be persuaded on the ments of the hOSpItalIty SUIte, but felt there was eVIdence on both sIdes for the controlled access beverage cabznets and he was not persuaded they should be demed the cab10ets COmmISSIOner Law saId she would hke the resolutIon to state thIs, notIng they can apply at a later date for the hOSPItahty sUIte If they want to COmmISSIOner Sharp saId he wanted Mr Steele's oplnlon on whether the Planmng COmmISSIOn could do thIs Charrman Dahlman saId Mr Steele had adVIsed the COmmISSIOn that changes could be made to resolutIons as long as they were based on pubhc testImony Mr Steele saId a resolutlon IS the final actIon of the Plannmg COmmISSIOn, as long as the resolutIon IS based on the eVIdence presented to the COmmISSIOn durmg a Pubhc Hearmg Staff has adVIsed hIm thIs evenmg that the apphcant has been tallong to Planmng Department staff regard10g an appeal of the Planmng COmmISSIOn's decISIon to the CIty Councll One optIon the apphcant dISCUSsed WIth staff IS hav10g the appealant drop theIr request for a hOSpItalIty SUIte, malang the request only for the controlled access beverage cabznets Another optIon IS, 1f the COmmISSIOn deSIres to follow the dIrectIon of Charrman Dahlman, thIS resolutIon could be reVIsed to reflect the COmmISSIOn's deSIre as stated by Charrman Dahlman COmmISSIOner Soukup asked If thIs IS to be consIdered as new 1OformatIon, outSIde the Pubhc Hear10g process? Charrman Dahlman saId he would not make a decISIon based on the fact of now know1Og the apphcant may pOSSIbly appeal Mr Steele saId he was not presentIng thIs as 1OformatIon to be conSIdered 10 the COmmISSIOn's decISIOns, he IS advlSlng the CommISSIon of theIr optIons 10 thIs matter The resolutIon can be amended WIthOUt another Pubhc Hearmg, but staff's preference would be to come back to the COmmISSIOn 10 two weeks WIth an amended resolutIon MOTION by Dahlman; SECOND by Sharp to amend ResolutIon No. 94-6, to restate the Planmng COImmSSlOn's desIre to approve CUP #94-1, penmttmg on-sale service of beer, wme and distilled SpIrIts from room controlled access beverage cabznets but not penmttmg a hospltahty suite. COmmISSIOner Soukup asked Charrman Dahlman to explam further hIS reasons for allow1Og the controlled access beverage cabznets Charrman Dahlman explamed the controlled access beverage cabznets are WIdely aVailable, If not standard, 10 most hotels and are not 10 the same category as the hOSPItahty SUIte The apphcant's arguments durmg the Pubhc Hearmg were vahd The hOSpItalIty SUIte represented, to hIm, another outlet where a person could go and be served alcohohc beverages He saId "I Just dIdn't realIze, or I maybe wasn't qUIck enough, to reahze we could have done thIS at the last meet10g had we conSIdered thIs at the last meetlng as two separate ISSUes I would have voted agamst the hOSPItahty SUIte and for the refngerators" . . . Page 3 - Plannmg CommISSIon Mmutes of February 23, 1994 CommISSIoner Soukup took Issue With the Chalrman' S statement that the controlled access beverage cabznets are wIdespread, tlus IS the second type #70 ABC hcense m Orange County ChaIrman Dahlman S3.l.d that at least 50% of the hotels he has stayed at m the last four years have had the controlled access beverage cabznets ChaIrman Dahlman S3.l.d he was not persuaded that the over-concentratlon of ABC hcenses m the census tract had much to do WIth these cabmets ComffilssIOner Soukup asked that If makmg hquor avaliable m a resIdentlal neIghborhood, wIthm 100' of resIdences IS a problem? ChaIrman Dahlman S3.l.d "It's a balance And I tlunk, on balance, It'S not that bIg a problem" ComffilssIOner Soukup sald he dIffered strongly and was surpnsed at a last mmute change ComffilSSIoner Sharp S3.l.d any hotel that has a restaurant plus an ABC hcense can have all the hOSPItal1ty rooms they want The type #70 ABC hcense IS somethmg new and IS completely dIfferent than the other ABC hcenses Any hotel of any SIZe m Orange County have restaurants WIth ABC hcenses He dIdn't see that tlus IS seventy new alcohol-servmg outlets, It'S a hotel WIth the cabmets as a convemence CommISSIOner Soukup S3.l.d a person, 21 years of age, could rent a room and have thel! under- age fnends come to VISIt There's no way to control that "I tlunk there's a major ethIcal Issue here that somehow we're ffilssmg" He felt the ComffilssIon should thmk on thIS further ChaIrman Dahlman suggested a condItlon could be mcluded whIch would msure that whoever gets the key to a controlled access beverage cabznet IS aware of hIs/her responsIbllitles CommIsSIOner Sharp S3.l.d the laws state a person receIvmg such a key must be of age, It'S not the room key WhICh opens the cabmet ChaIrman Dahlman asked If there were any other condItlon whIch could be set m place whIch would make ComffilssIoner Soukup more comfortable? ComffilssIoner Soukup S3.l.d yes, If there were only one or two mmlature bottles of hquor m each cabmet He mdIcated there are hquor- selling estabhshments across the street from the hotel and hquor doesn't have to be brought mto the hotel ChaIrman Dahlman S3.l.d It'S a decISIon for the hotel to make to purchase and stock the controlled access beverage cabznets and the CIty should not make that decISIon for them However, It IS mcumbent on the hotel management to make certaIn ffilnors do not drmk from the cabmets and that people who are mtoXlcated do not dnve thel! cars MOTION CARRIED: AYES NOES 3-2-0 Dahlman, Law, Sharp Soukup, Campbell Mr Whtttenberg S3.l.d Resolutlon No 94-7 would be reVIsed and brought back to the ComffilssIon on March 9, 1994 for ComffilssIon conSIderatlon and fmal actlon *** . . . Page 4 - P1annmg ComDlISSIOn Manutes of February 23, 1994 3. AdoptIon of ResolutIon #94-2 CUP #92-26 for Tortilla Beach Restaurant The ComffilSSIon noted the ABC condItIons of approval for CUP #92-26 are presented for theIr reVIew tonIght MOTION by Sharp, SECOND by Campbell to approve ResolutIon #94-2, thus approvmg an mderrmte extensIOn for an alcohol-related land use at Tortilla Beach restaurant. MOTION CARRIED: AYES 5-0-0 Sharp, Campbell, Law, Dahlman, Soukup *** 4 Receive and FIle: "Azr Quality Element of the General Plan - Techmcal Repori Mr Wluttenberg explamed thIs report IS not m fmal form, staff IS WaitIng for addItIonal mformatIon from the South Coast Au Quahty Management DIStrIct When thIs mformatIon IS receIved and mcorporated the CommIsSIon will be provIded an updated copy of tms document In Mayor June staff will come before the ComffilSSIon WIth a proposal to adopt an AIr Quahty element to the CIty'S General Plan MOTION by Law; SECOND by Dahlman to receive and rIle the "Azr Quahty Element of the General Plan - Techmcal Repori. MOTION CARRIED' AYES: 5-0-0 Law, Sharp, Campbell, Dahlman, Soukup *** PUBLIC HEARINGS 5 ConditIonal Use Pernut #93-15 [Contmued from 1-5-94, 1-19-94,2-9-94] Address' 900 Ocean A venue Busmess Ruby's Restaurant Apphcant. Lee RIleylRuby's Restaurant Property Owner- City of Seal Beach Request: To remodel and expand an eXIStmg restaurant (Ruby's) through the additIon of approXImately 705 square feet of outdoor seatmg area (south end ofmumclpal pier), a 170 square foot multIpurpose room (north Side of the restaurant), addmg a wooden monument Sign (30 square feet), a new garage . . . Page 5 - PIanmng CommISSion Minutes of February 23, 1994 to house a pnvate tram for transportmg customers, a larger trash enclosure and new landscapmg at foot of pier. The remodel will mtegrate the existmg restrooms mto the mtenor of the restaurant and add new extenor restrooms for pubhc access Staff Report Mr CurtIs presented the staff report [Staff report on fIle In the Planmng Department] ThIs matter was contInued to allow addItIonal tIme for staff to contact the Long Beach regIOnal office of the Department of FISh and Game (DFG) to discuss potentIal concerns regardmg proVIsIons of theIr lease WIth the CIty and to consIder alternatIves to the proposed monument SIgn CommISSIon Comments on Staff Report DFG Concerns COmmISSIOner Soukup asked If DFG IS only concerned WIth the needs of the fishermen? Mr CurtIs saId the DFG staff appeared to be very concerned WIth wheelcharr access, publIc access around the pIer and fishIng access WheelchaIr Access ReqUirements CommIsSIoner Soukup asked what the requIrements are for wheelcharr access on a pedestnan area? Staff thought the Amencans WIth DIsabIlIty Act (ADA) requIred 44" Benches CommIsSIOner Soukup asked who's VIew would be Improved If the backs of the pIer benches are removed? Mr CurtIs SaId people m wheelcharrs and smaller people would have a better VIew off the end of the pIer than they currently have, trymg to look over the ralis Removmg the backs of the benches would provIde easIer access In and out of the benches, It would also be cleaner COmmISSIOner Soukup felt the fishermen and some elderly people would benefit from the back support Monument SIgn COmmISSIOner Soukup SaId a pnvate restaurant would be able to have a 50' SIgn whIch IS based on the WIdth of the buildmg Such sIgnage would be on the buildmg Itself or m the parkIng lot as a monument or pole SIgn However, that pnvate restaurant would be subject to the CIty'S parkmg regulatIons Restrooms CommIsSIoner Soukup asked who would mamtaIn the extenor restrooms? Mr WhIttenberg saId the CIty would mamtaIn them Lease NegotIatIons CommIsSIoner Soukup asked If the CIty Council would re-negotIate the lease terms based on the Impacts of thIS development? Mr WhIttenberg SaId certaIn prOVISIons of the lease document would no longer be applIcable If thIs applIcatIon IS approved as presented Therefore, the lease Page 6 - Plannmg COIDlDlSSIOD MInutes of February 23, 1994 . would need to be amended, partIcularly m regard to tram servIce wluch IS now reqUIred to be provIded by the CIty under thIS proposal the restaurant operator would provIde that servIce Rents, lIabilIty Issues regardmg the tram, and other dISCUSSIons would take place between the CIty Manager and Ruby's, Plannmg Department staff would not be mvolved m that process Staff could not comment on how the CIty Council ffilght mstruct the CIty Manager m tlus regard ORposItIon to Proj)Osal Charrman Dahlman asked If DFG staff were made aware of publIc OpposItlon to tlus proposal? Mr CurtIs saId DFG staff were not proVIded copIes of the February 9th CommISSIon ffilnutes, however CIty staff dId make comments on what they had heard at that meetlng, staff wanted to elICIt DFG concerns DFG Personnel Present at PIer Meetlng Mr Wluttenberg saId the DFG personnel present were the Drrector of the WildlIfe Conservatlon Board and one of hIS asSIStantS from Sacramento Other POSSIble DeSigns Charrman Dahlman asked If the applIcant had any other deSIgns? Mr Wluttenberg saId the applIcant has prepared a couple of drawmgs WhICh have been dIsplayed PublIc Heartng . Chatrman Dahlman opened the PublIc Hearmg Lee Riley * Ruby's Mr Riley dISCUSSed three Issues I Issue. I' More Pubhc Access Alternatlve Al prOVIdes 8' of pubhc access versus Alternatlve BI wmch prOVIdes 9' of publIc access Mr Riley saId these numbers are arbItrary and dId not come from standards He saId he spoke to the WildlIfe Conservatlon Board trymg to understand the 9' but they could not proVide Ruby's With any statlstlcs on how much space a fisherman needs or a pedestnan needs Alternatlves Al and BI are two new StudIes done by Ruby's smce the February 9th meetlng These studIes respond to concerns expressed by the WildlIfe Conservatlon Board (part of DFG) and Plannmg ComffilssIon comments He saId the staff report comments, relatlng to the restaurant's mtenor, do not work because of ADA reqUIrements, mffilmum dIStance Widths for booths, swmgmg doors If Ruby's had to comply stnctly WIth DFG requrrements, Ruby's would have to stlck to BI . Page 7 - PIannmg CoDlDllSSIOn Minutes of February 23, 1994 . AIlS only l' wIder than Bl m a hmlted area, m the central part of the outdoor dInIng area Losmg the l' would preclude Ruby's from havmg four person booths Any partIes of three persons or more would not have any seatIng facmg the ocean Losmg the fleXIbility and/or types of seats for VarIOUS dmmg patrons would be a problem The average SIZe of a Ruby's party IS 3 2 persons He saId there have been allegatIons that fishmg areas would be taken away and thIs IS not true Ruby's IS not takIng away any fishmg area that eXISts today CIty staff has requested some bench area at the end of the pIer be removed to prOVIde more space for fishermen congregatIng to go out on charter boats Removal of thIs bench prOVIdes a benefit to wheelcharr/handICapped persons AcceSSIbility to that corner of the pIer would allow them to fish off the end of the pIer Mr RIley saId he measured the pIer at San Clemente and there IS 2'6" between the face of the pIer raIlmgs and the edge of the seatIng area It seemed adequate to hIm Mr RIley asked the Plannmg CommIsSIon to consIder AlternatIves A 1 and B 1, mdlcatIng they prefer Al . Mr RIley saId the bench backs have become a problem for CIty marntenance workers He dIdn't see why they need to be 6" deep, a narrower bench backIng would gIve more access space If the bench was moved up 3", Ruby's would be able to marntarn the requIred pedestnan access Mr WhIttenberg, notIng the dIfference between the Al and Bl alternatIves IS l' m WIdth, asked how long IS that area where the seatIng IS? Mr RIley saId It 25' m length for a total of 25 square feet CommISSIoner Soukup saId the drawmg mdlcates 44" between the new bench and the extenor wall and 48" IS mlmmum Mr RIley saId he dIdn't know where the 48" measurement came from, It dIdn't come from DFG Mr RIley explarned how they pIck up 9" of the 12" WhICh would have been lost m Bl The handIcapped access for a passageway IS 44" The new bench proposal IS WIthOUt backIng, explarnmg that a 6" thIck back IS a great place to cut baIt and that becomes very dIrty Mr RIley dIdn't see the need for a back support saymg most pIers don't offer them CommIsSIoner Soukup agreed the bench backs don't need to be 6" thIck but, to hIm, the backs are a necessary component after a long day of fishIng Regardmg fishermen's gear gomg out mto the pedestnan area, Mr RIley saId a backstop could be placed under the benches to preclude that happenmg, DFG thought that would be adequate also Mr RIley spoke WIth John SchmIdt, ExecutIve DIrector, Wlldhfe ConservatIon Board saId theIr scope does not mclude pedestnan access, they are narrowly focused on the needs of the fishermen However, theIr letter says they are concerned WIth pedestnan traffic, WhICh IS dIrect conflIct WIth hIs conversatIon . . . . Page 8 - PIannmg CommISSIon Minutes of February 23, 1994 ComnusslOner Soukup, referencmg Mr R1ley's statement that the Al plan (WIth the four- person booths) would be ehmmated If the B1 plan was chosen, asked If a fanuly of four wouldn't want to SIt m a row, lookmg out over the ocean? Mr R1ley S3.1d semor cItlzens frequent Ruby's and Ruby's feels they would not want to SIt at a counter when they could SIt at a booth ComnusslOner Soukup S3.1d they could SIt at a booth mSIde or at outdoor booths 2 Issue #2. SIgnage At the February 9th meetmg, the dIScussIon centered not on ItS SIZe or locatIon but, on what It would say The ComnusslOn felt the CIty should be gettmg more recogmtIon Ruby's IS open to dIscuSSIon on thIs Issue Ruby's wants a "farr shake" on exposure so people at the foot of the pIer are aware there's a Ruby's restaurant at the end of the pIer He S3.1d he would hke ComnusslOn approval for a sIgn of certaIn dImenslOns and then havmg Ruby's come back to the CIty to work out what the copy will be He explamed that he will be heard by the CIty Council and If they gIve the CIty Manager the authonty for hIm to move on to the Cahforma Coastal ComnusslOn, then what Ruby's puts before the Coastal ComnusslOn IS what Ruby's has to hve WIth The Coastal ComnusslOn has no requrrements on the sIgnage Ruby's has no problem WIth sharmg the sIgn, but smce It'S puttmg the sIgn up It wants a farr percentage of the sIgn to address Ruby's He wanted the CIty to tell hIm what they want It to say 3 Issue #3. Tram Charrman Dahlman asked Mr R1ley If Ruby's needs to build a structure on the beach? Mr Wluttenberg S3.1d the apphcatIon mcludes the constructIon of a storage garage at the base of the pIer m the parkmg lot area Mr R1ley S3.1d they were gomg to have the tram storage on the pIer Itself In response to Coastal Conservancy comments, Ruby's moved It down mto the parkmg lot mto a unused area Charrman Dahlman S3.1d he receIved a letter from Dr Robert Thayer who S3.1d there's a State law requmng a tram to have a beepmg SIgnal Mr Wluttenberg S3.1d he talked to Dr Thayer and told hIm he IS not aware of such a State law, staff will research thIs The Charrman asked Ms Fillmann If the CIty receIved any correspondence regardmg thIS apphcatIon? Ms Fillmann S3.1d no Charrman Dahlman mdIcated he receIved a letter from Robert Thayer, Ph D and a telephone call from Ron Miller m favor of the apphcatIon The letter from Dr Thayer, dated February 10, 1994 was read mto the Record [Attached] The letter mentIons LeIsure World resIdents walk a lot Keymg on that comment, ComnusslOner Soukup asked If the CIty IS supposed to provIde tram servIce for persons who are mcapable of walkmg somewhere? ComnusslOner Soukup stated he had wanted to attend the CIty'S meetIng WIth DFG and was notIfied by Mr Steele that If he dId so he may forgo hIS votmg pnvileges If he attended It was Page 9 - PIannmg CommISSion Mmutes of February 23, 1994 . alnght for Mr Soukup to appomt a representative from DIStnCt 1, he appomted DavId Rosenman Mr Rosenman got approval from DIStnCt 1 Councilperson Hastings The followmg persons spoke m favor of thIs apphcation John LoomIS * ArchItect for the Ap.phcant * 30th Street ArchItects Mr LoomIS saId a handIcapped accessIbility area IS a Umform Buildmg Code (UBC) requIrement and not ADA law UBC requIres an eXIt path of 44" for any occupancy m excess of 49 people, both alternative Al and BI provIde for thIs Regardmg the backs of pIer benches, he saId he would hke to have a back to a seat A back could be provIded WIthOUt a reduction m the WIdth of theIr plans Regardmg SItting next to one another at a counter, hIs expenence over the years has shown people are most comfortable m a booth setting, "Eating IS a SOCIal expenence" He felt the real dIfference between alternatives Al and BIIS one foot, It does not mcrease any ability along the pIer pen meter The total pen meter of the pIer IS the acceSSIble to fishermen m both schemes The one foot goes m a sohd back wall, behmd the bench, whIch IS a 4" to 6" structure and could poSSIbly be reduced a couple of mches The rest of the footage goes mto the CIrculation area behInd that wall, behInd the bench In the 8' scheme, Ruby's IS provIdmg a 44" WIde path of travel and m the 9' scheme, Ruby's IS mcreasmg that by approxImately 8" An addItional 4" IS a sohd wall behmd the bench, whIch acts as a back to the bench There IS 19" WIdth for the bench and a bench WIth a back can easily be provIded The addItional foot allows Ruby's to provIde outdoor dmmg, whIch IS a VISItor servIce too . COmmISSIOner Soukup referenced Mr LoomIs' comment that dmmg IS a SOCIal expenence and more pleasurable m a booth He asked If he could take that to mean all counter seating could be removed and that space could be gIven back to the pubhc? And could Ruby's then concentrate on booth seating and rearrangmg outdoor seating? Mr LoomIS saId "Of course not" He explamed a balance of seating opportumties, noting the statiStically most deSIrable seating IS booth seating Gomg to the 9' scheme prohIbIts Ruby's from havmg four premIer booths at the center of the scheme COmmISSIOner Soukup suggested buildmg up, creating a 10ft-type patio Rather than havmg all the seating on the pIer deck, a second story would be created, havmg more of the four-seater booths up there Mr LoomIS saId a second story was dISCUSSed a long time ago The CIty was not m favor of a second story for the restaurant at the time He thought the CahfornIa Coastal COmmISSIOn and the Coastal Conservancy hmIted the buildmg to a rephcation of the square footage of the buildmg that burned COmmISSIOner Sharp remembered that pretty much everyone was agaInst the second story -- the COmmISSIOn and the pubhc CommISSIOner Soukup saId he thought the apphcation of that second story, a bar, was the problem If the two Issues were separated support may have been found Mr LoomIS saId that there IS nothIng preventing Ruby's from consIdenng a second story If the CIty would allow It and dependmg on configuration of the area bemg able to accommodate booths and tables for four people The ADA would come mto play for access to that second story . . . . Page 10 - PIannmg CommISSIon Mmutes of February 23, 1994 Mr Steele asked Mr Loonus to c1anfy the Al alternatIve WIth the 8' space between the edge of the pIer and the edge of the buildmg and the set of four top booths WIth a 44" nummum aisle versus alternatIve BI wmch has 9' between the edge of the pIer and the edge of the buildmg, two topper booths and a 52" aisle He SaId It appeared to mm that 2/3 of the space that's commg out of AIlS gomg to an aisle, so we're talkmg about 4" of table space Mr Loonus c1anfied that there's a foot dIfference WIth 4" gomg mto the wall behmd the bench, 8" gomg mto the aisle approXlmately Mr Steele asked If It would be possIble to keep a 44" aisle on Bl and mcrease the table space? Mr LoomIS SaId no, because the m1mmum WIdth on the four top IS 48" and that's extremely tIght The best Ruby's could achIeve was 38" d1menslOnally It does not work The followmg persons spoke m OppoSItIOn to thIS appl1catIon DaVId Rosenman * 208 8th Street. Seal Beach Mr Rosenman SaId that at the request of ComnusslOner Soukup and Councilwoman HastIngs he attended, as an observer, a meetIng between DFG and the City Also attendmg were Mr Whlttenberg, Mr CurtIs and Mr Riley Mr Steele's ground rules were that he could not comment at that meetIng Mr Rosenman dIffered WIth Mr CurtIs' comment that there really wasn't much mput about what the publ1c wanted, except for one erroneous pIece of mformatIon Mr Rosenman SaId the prmc1pal of that meetIng was W John Schnudt, ExecutIve Drrector, Department of FISh and Game Wildl1fe ConservatIon Board Mr Schnudt pomted out the pnmary nuss10n of DFG m thIS case IS that the momes had been gIven to prevlOusly to the CIty of Seal Beach to establ1sh a fishmg pIer He had to restnct mmself to those concerns Mr Schnudt SaId he's concerned about any of the pIers that DFG IS mvolved WIth because when publ1c space IS taken It IS never gotten back If any space IS taken away, somethmg IS bemg taken from all people usmg the pIer Mr Rosenman SaId there has been a cascade of events leadmg to bad decISIons, such as lookmg at only one alternatIve He asked many people about pnor concerns regardmg the pIer, 100% of those asked SaId they dIdn't object to two stones but they object to the fact the pnor proposal I; was gomg to be a bar He felt other alternatIves should be set forth, such as a second story or a long, finger-hke structure the length of the pIer He urged rejectIon of thls appl1catIon as currently deSIgned and favored redeSIgn, eIther up or back m the drrectIon of the pIer Mr Rosenman SaId he talked Wlth Seal Beach reSIdent Wendy Rothman, who was mvolved Wlth brmgmg Ruby's to the CIty The CIty gave Ruby's a fully fixtunzed facility, WIth refngerators, counters, seats Normally, when a restaurant IS rented only the shell IS rented The tenant suppl1es the refngerators, ovens, tables et cetera Ruby's, as conSIderatIon, assumed responsIbility for canng for the restrooms Mr Rosenman suggested the ComnusslOn not remove thls reqUlrement but forward It to the CIty Council to deal WIth . . . Page 11 - PIannmg CoOlJUlSSIOO Mmutes of February 23, 1994 Regardmg the sign, Mr Rosenman saId It'S current design IS too large and suggested It be 18' x 8' Regardmg the suggested lack stop to go under the benches to prevent fishmg gear from gomg mto pedestrIan walkways, he felt thiS would gather debns Mr Rosenman felt Ruby's management should chalk mark on the pier what part of the pIer they are proposmg to take so the publIc can look at It He wondered If thIs has not happened because If people looked at It they probably wouldn't go for It Mltzle Morton * 153 13th Street. Seal Beach Mrs Morton saId thIS applIcation should not have been brought before the Plannmg Comffilsslon but rather should have gone to the City Council Because thIs IS CIty-owned property, the restaurant was built by the CIty, and the CIty owns the restaurant the CIty Council should have been the frrst to hear about thIs The CIty Council should have made a decISIon on whether they wanted staff to proceed The February 9th Plannmg Comffilsslon hearmg sounded to Mrs Morton as though Ruby's owned the restaurant When she called CIty Council people she found out they knew nothIng about thIs applIcation The Plannmg Department staff has been workIng on thIS applIcation WIthout the CIty Council knowmg about It Mrs Morton saId she worked WIth a group on the re-establIshment of thIs restaurant and to try to get Ruby's m Ruby's wanted to come to Seal Beach and at the time, Doug Cavanaugh of Ruby's told thIs group that he would not ask for anythIng other than what he had been granted as It was suffiCIent Now, SIX years later, Ruby's wants an expansIOn The CIty gave Ruby's a sweetheart deal by mc1udmg all the fIXtures Mr Cavanaugh dIdn't lIke the CIty'S deSIgn and he decIded to change It, whIch was hIS pnvilege Mrs Morton saId she does not want to gIve up part of the CIty'S pIer She felt an outdoor patio would be lovely but the patio does not have to accommodate 56 or 60 people, they could have a small patio to seat 25 or 30 people She does not want the CIty to gIve up more space to a restaurant use whIch was supposed to be a secondary use on the pIer Regardmg the tram, she asked what SIze It would be? Who would use It? What's gomg to happen to the people who don't want to go to Ruby's but can't walk out to the pIer? Regardmg the Ruby's garage on the CIty'S parkmg lot, she stated there was a lot of controversy when the CIty lIfeguards wanted to put theIr storage sheds down there The heIght of the sheds was gomg to rum the ocean VIew of people SItting m the park The cIUzens don't want to see sheds and garages down there whIch may obstruct the VIew She suggested the parkIng lot at Frrst Street would be an alternative She questioned the fact of the CIty gIvmg up therr nghts of a publIc tram and gIve It to a pnvate enterpnse Regardmg a two-story structure, she questioned the safety of such a buildmg m an earthquake but noted an upstarrs patio would be mce to have The pnor objections to a two-story structure were that It would be a large restaurant WIth a bar whIch would stay open to 1 00 a m The management was gomg to take over more than the pIer restaurant, he was gomg to take over pIer concessIOns The CalIfornIa Conservancy would be the mam agency concerned about the publIc She saId she would hate to see the Plannmg CommIssIon make a decISIon and then It'S appealed to the CIty Council and they are put on the spot of dlffenng WIth therr Planmng CommIssIoners She felt the CIty'S lease With DFG states the mam pomt of any SIgn IS to say "Seal Beach PIer" or "Seal Beach FIShmg PIer" and secondary would be the restaurant If a SIgn IS planned, she hoped It would be placed on the West SIde, towards Alaffiltos Bay, so there wouldn't be an obstruction of the ocean as you dnve Page 12 - PIannmg CommISSIon MInutes of February 23, 1994 . down Mam Street Charrman Dahlman sald the apphcant proposed approval of a blank sign and figunng out the copy later He asked If she had comments Mrs Morton sald Ruby's IS actmg hke they are the mam entity but she felt any SIgn should say "Seal Beach PIer" and the word "mumcIpahty" IS too large a word to mclude She called DFG and they told her that no mention of the sign was made to them at therr meetmg With the City She thought approval would have to be gamed from DFG for any SIgn It should be up to the CIty to decide on what, If any, type of SIgn they want Charrman Dahlman agreed With Mrs Morton, saymg he wished the Plannmg COmmtSSlOn had had more gUIdance on this Issue before It came up Charrman Dahlman sald If the SIgn IS left out of this apphcatIon and It'S left to the City to put up a SIgn, It would not be patd for Mrs Morton sald It wouldn't cost that much for a mce wooden SIgn and a lot of money was donated to landscapmg the park She would prefer that the SIgn be desIgned by the CIty and approved by the City Council . Charrman Dahlman asked Mrs Morton about the trams havmg an exclUSive contract, takIng away the City'S nght to operate a tram Mr Steele sald the City IS not bemg asked to approve that at this time ThIs would be renegotiated WithIn the lease per drrectIon from the City Council Charrman Dahlman asked If the COmmtSSlon needed to even address tram Issues now? Mr Wluttenberg sald the Plannmg COmmtSSlon' S Issues are to deal With the proposed outside dInmg area, the expansion of the storage area, the extenor restrooms and a garage storage structure at the base of the pier for a tram vehIcle The CIty Council will dehberate on the type of tram vehtcle, who provides the vehtcle, and what the nghts of the partIes are regardmg the vehtcle CommISSIoner Sharp sald he felt people are mtssmg the pomt that If the Plannmg COmmtSSIon approves this, It will go to the Coastal CommISSIon next Mrs Morton sald It should go to the City Council before It goes to the Coastal COmmtSSlon Mr Wluttenberg clanfied that If the Plannmg Commission approves thIS apphcatIon, staff will go to the City Council at therr next meeting to seek Council authonzanon to file an apphcanon With the Coastal CommiSSIon, the CIty would be the apphcant on that apphcanon As part of that request for ftlmg of an apphcanon With the Coastal COmmtSslon, staff will request the Council request the City Manager to enter lease negonanons With the current operators of the facility Once the Coastal COmmtsslon has made a declSlon, the City Council would have before them the final approval of whatever lease document IS appropnate based on the approvals granted by the Plannmg CommISSion, If It decIded to grant any at all, and then by the Coastal CommiSSIon based on therr dehberanons COmmtSsIoner Campbell sald the 1984 lease agreement IS very clear on sIgnage It sald "The name of thIS project IS the Seal Beach FIshtng Pier or the Seal Beach Pier" Etther name shall be used m all documents, SIgns, pubhcanons, brochures, general hterature or news releases . . . . Page 13 - PIannmg CommJSSJon Mmutes of February 23, 1994 Operators shall not rename the project or change any project sIgns WIthOut the approval of the State and then, only for reasons of change of condItIons or over-ndmg pubhc or histone Importance" Mr WhIttenberg saId the Plannmg COmmISSIOn would have the authonty to approve a SIgn WIth whichever one of those two ChOIces IS most appropnate Mrs Morton saId she IS very dlsappomted staff dId not contact DFG when the latest fire damaged the pIer Accordmg to DFG's letter they would have been willmg to gIve the CIty money to reparr the pIer and the reparr work could have been done a long tIme ago COmmISSIOner Soukup agreed, statIng DFG mdlcated they could pOSSIbly find some momes Brent Matthews * 8th Street. Seal Beach Mr Matthews saId It seems It IS not a questIon If Ruby's should or could expand but how they mIght expand and under what terms He asked the CommIssIon to make sure any expanSIon IS compatIble WIth the current use and to protect and enhance the CIty'S pOSItIon phYSIcally and finanCIally Regardmg the SIgn, he IS completely against sIgnage on the pIer, he doesn't need a SIgn to know It'S a fishmg pIer If Ruby's IS asking to expand he doesn't have a problem WIth sIgnage Regardmg the restrooms, he would be dlsappomted If the COmmISSIOn rehnqUlshed the CIty'S poSItIon for Ruby's to clean the restrooms Under CIty staffing constraInts It'S a neceSSIty Regardmg the lease, he asked If there IS a fixed rental fee per square foot He felt this would be tIme to mclude this m lease renegotIatIons He suggested the Planmng CommIssIon use chalk, laymg out the proposal, and bemg sure It works COmmISSIOner Soukup asked If the Plannmg CommIssIon could make recommendatIons WIth regard to the lease? Mr WhIttenberg saId the Planmng COmmISSIOn may make recommendatIons to the CIty Council on plannmg matters It mIght be stretchIng the defimtIon of plannmg matters to try to dIrect the Council on how to negotIate a lease agreement ChaIrman Dahlman saId the COmmISSIOn's main object IS to look after development and plannmg conSIderatIons CommIssIoner Sharp SaId that a few years ago the CIty Council thought that the Plannmg CommIssIon was trymg to set pohcy and they let the Plannmg CommIssIon know and straightened the COmmISSIOn out on what theIr Job was and what they were supposed to do COmmISSIOner Campbell saId that m regardmg to readmg the 1984 agreement between the CIty and DFG, It'S not a matter of enforcmg the agreement but rather It'S a matter of approvmg somethIng m dIrect VIolatIon of It Mr Steele SaId Its dIfficult when consldermg a comprehenSIve apphcatIon, where there are a number of elements, to separate out the land use decISIons The COmmISSIOn's decISIon IS hmIted to whether or not this apphcatIon IS conSIstent WIth the General Plan and the apphcable zomng, whether or not the property and Improvements are adequate to accommodate the proposed use and the other mumclpal ~ proVISIOns It's a matter of law that If this apphcant wants to go forward WIth thIngs that are not land use decISIons, the apphcant will have to go to the CIty Council and get the lease amended The fact that there's language m the lease that may or may not Impact the proposal IS not relevant to the land use Issues liThe questIon before you . . . Page 14 - PIannmg CommISSion Minutes of February 23, 1994 on the sIgn as I see It, and I would dIffer WIth Mr Wluttenberg, IS whether or not there should be a SIgn there Is It good planmng and good land use m the CIty of Seal Beach to have a thIrty square foot SIgn at the end of the pIer? II The CIty Council and CIty Manager must negotIate WIth the apphcant Wlthm the terms of the lease to decIde what the SIgn will say QuestIons on who will mamtam the restrooms are not land use decISIons MarlO Voce * 730 Catahna. Seal Beach Mr Voce saId apprmumately two years ago there was a proposal to add a SIgn announcmg Ruby's at the end of the pIer There was much adverse reactIon He saId he was concerned that the CIty not lose pedestrIan space at the end of the pIer because It'S already cramped when people are out there m suffiCIent numbers Rebuttal Mr Rtley rebutted that regardmg a second-story, the ADA would reqUIre Ruby's to put man elevator faclhty and the costs would be prohtbItIve Mr Steel saId hts understandmg of ADA requIrements IS that an eXIstIng structure, to whtch a second story IS added, does not requITe an elevator It's when you get to three stones Mr Rtley saId on April 1, 1995, the ADA rules will tIghten sIgmficantly Regardmg the lease, there are two leases, the one between the CIty and Ruby's and the lease between the CIty and DFG ThIs IS not the appropnate forum to dISCUSS leases Regardmg Mrs Morton's comments, the reason Ruby's IS dealmg WIth the Planmng COmmtSSlon before the CIty Council IS that when Ruby's tnltIally made thts proposal they met WIth Mr Wluttenberg and the CIty Manager and asked what procedure must we go through? They outhned very clearly the steps, whtch mcluded dealmg WIth the COmmtSSIOn before the Council Ruby's IS followmg CIty pohcy and IS not trymg to cIrcumvent the CIty Council Mr Wluttenberg saId that If the Planmng COmmtSSlon approves thts apphcatIon It will go before the Council next Monday mght for them to conSIder authonzmg the filmg of the apphcatIon to the Coastal COmmtSSIon Regardmg the tram, Ruby's plans to have a golf-cart sIZed tram whtch would seat four to SIX persons The tram would be for theIr patrons Ruby's IS not currently bemg prOVIded the tram servIces they are supposed to receIve Regardmg the garage for the tram, Ruby's IS proposmg a 9' x 15'structure It's below the park and will not be VISIble from the street or park and the only tIme It could be seen IS from the bottom of the pIer Regardmg DFG not bemg aware of the sIgnage, DFG has receIved two dIfferent sets of plans, both of whtch have the SIgn mformatIon on them Regardmg COmmtsSIoner Campbell's comments on pIer sIgnage, the agreement IS referrmg to the brass plates mstalled at the left SIde on the pIer COmmtSsIoner Campbell saId she IS readmg from the agreement as It pertaIns to any SIgns placed there There bemg no addItIonal speakers the Pubhc Hearmg was closed Chamnan Dahlman called a recess at 9.38 p m. The meetmg resumed at 9 49 p m. COmmtssloner Soukup asked what would Ruby's do If the CIty wanted to resume actIVItIes WIth the tram as It was? Mr Rtley saId Ruby's would love It because they have been WIthOUt tram servIce whtch was a guaranteed amemty to the lease for two years DISCUSSIOn ensued on why . . . Page 15 - PIannmg CommISSion Mmutes of February 23, 1994 the CIty'S tram servIce had been mterrupted WIth ComrmSSlOner Soukup suggestIng pIer reparrs needmg to be done Mr Wluttenberg saId the tram Issues are not a ComrmSSlOn Issue ComrmSSlOner Soukup saId the ComrmSSlOn IS deahng WIth a garage structure wIDch IS for a tram, askmg If the proposed garage structure would house a CIty tram? He dId not feel It was mappropnate to ask that questIon Mr Wluttenberg saId that at thls pomt the CIty does not have a CIty tram MOTION by Soukup; SECOND by Campbell to postpone thIS apphcabon Before a vote the followmg comments were made ComrmSSlOner Campbell asked about havmg a second story for the general publIc If the space below was taken away for the restaurant? ComrmsslOner Soukup saId he wants to accommodate Ruby's as best he can WIthout thIS approach but feels further mvestIgatIon needs to be done Mr Steel adVIsed the ComrmsslOn has a specIfic proposal before It To move for mdefimte delay and to ask for further mvestIgatIon would requrre a motIon to deny thIS partIcular proposal m order to protect the applIcant's nghts ComrmsslOner Soukup saId he would restate IDS motIon If that IS what IS requrred Charrman Dahlman saId he wanted to see how the dIScussIon proceeds ComrmSSlOner Law saId that If thls applIcatIon IS demed by the Plannmg CommIssIon the applIcant has a nght to appeal that decISIon to the CIty Council Mr Wluttenberg clanfied the applIcant's appeal nghts ComrmSSlOner Law saId she understood exactly what CommIssIoner Soukup had saId, and that IS that he does not want thIS applIcatIon at all, he wants them to come back WIth dIfferent proposal and deSIgn ComrmSSlOner Soukup clanfied that he feels thIS plan may be confiscatory m the way that thIS plan IS bemg developed at thIS moment There may be other ways to accomplIsh the same thmg and proVIde Ruby's a way to satIsfy therr needs and to satIsfy the publIc If a motIon IS legally needed to deny thIS so that actIon can be pursued, then he would mclude It m IDS motIon He IS not agamst Ruby's categoncally He saId there's the ongmal proposal and the alternatIves Al and Bl and he IS agamst removal of the benches m the ongmal proposal Charrman Dahlman how the ongmal proposal and the Bl alternatIve dIffer? Mr Wluttenberg saId they are not sIgmficantly dIfferent but Bl prOVIdes a more accurate representatIon of the outSIde patIo area The publIc areas are the same There IS l6lh' from the end of Ruby's restaurant to the edge of the pIer railing CommISSIoner Soukup saId "I thlnk there's a lot of solutIons that we can mvestIgate, WIth the cooperatIon of Ruby's or WIthOUt" He suggested a car-hop arrangement for servIce outSIde the restaurant "As It IS now, IJust don't th1nk that from a general land use decIsIon-makmg pomt of VIew that we should approve thls one and get on a fast track to the Coastal ComrmSSlOn WIthOUt looking at the other avenues My MotIon IS to delay or postpone, under the auspIces . . . Page 16 - PIanmng CommISSion Minutes of February 23, 1994 of denymg the ongmal request" Mr Steele SaId there IS another concern and that IS the delay of final achon on a specIfic proposal IS that the Penmt Streamhnmg Act requrres the CIty take a final achon on thIS proposal WithIn a specIfied penod of hme --- It may be 90 days or It may be 115 days --- otherwIse It'S deemed approved The CIty IS startlng to push that deadlme ComffilSSlOner Soukup SaId he would modIfy hls Mohon MODIFIED MOTION by Soukup; SECOND by Campbell to deny CondItIonal Use Peront #93-15. Before a vote the followmg comments were made ComffilSSloner Campbell SaId the owners enJoy a hlgh patronage and WIsh to mcrease therr fmanclal profits by servmg more people Wh1le there IS nothmg wrong WIth that, It would be done at the expense of the general pubhc because Ruby's would be talang away the end of the pIer WhIch belongs to the general pubhc Once It'S taken away the CIty IS never gomg to get It back She SaId she went out to the pIer and measured It There IS 9' from the end of the pIer to where Ruby's partlhon would begm whlch allow 4' to 4th' for the general pubhc She feels thIs IS madequate for the general pubhc There are safety queshons such as the pIer havmg to be evacuated qUIckly there would be a lot of trouble The amount of space Ruby's wants to allow the general pubhc to use IS not enough She IS agamst removmg the back of the benches because she, for example, tends to not look where she IS walkmg and IS afrald she would fall over those benches She felt It'S better to have the fishermen and therr gear separated from the ch1ldren She feels there are other ophons, such as a second story WIth eIther dmers eatlng up there or the pubhc strollmg up there The current proposal, to her and the many people from College Park East that she has spoken WIth, IS not glvmg adequate space Comffilssloner Sharp Said he felt the Planmng CommIssIon doesn't have the ability or knowledge to draw plans for a restaurant whlch has many regulahons placed on It by the ADA, DFG and the Coastal CommIssIon He felt the SIgn was mappropnate, the proposal IS too large and they already have enough slgnage SUBSTITUTE MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Law to approve CondltIonal Use Peront #93-15, alternatIve Bl, With the stIpulatIon that the Sign be removed from the request. Before a vote Mr Steele SaId because the Subshtute Mohon IS drrectly OppOSIte the ongmal MOhon, the Comffilsslon must vote on the Mohon A Subshtute Mohon IS an amendment to the ongmal Mohon as opposed to the exact OppoSIte ChaIrman Dahlman SaId the Subshtute Mohon IS out of order Chalrman Dahlman commented on the Mohon to deny thIS apphcatIon, saymg he thInks the CIty has been gIven two alternahves, one talang away 8' at the end of the pIer and the other takes . . . Page 17 - Planmng CommISSIOn Mmutes of February 23, 1994 away 7' He doesn't see an alternatIve that doesn't take away any space "If there were such an alternatIve and there were a good reason not to vote for It I don't thmk I would vote for It If one of these other alternatIves were better But m the absence of that I don't thmk I can consIder --- I would much rather have seen, whenever tills first came to the attentIon of the Plannmg Department -- have seen two or three alternatIves m general1f you really wanted our opmlOn on tills So that we could help steer you m the nght drrectIon Or maybe you have got that gUIdance from Jerry Bankston or the CIty Council" Regardmg the tram, the SIgn and the constructIon of the storage on the beach are best addressed by the Mam Street SpecIfic Plan The tram IS certamly related as there IS talk of a trolley m town He dIdn't want to see those Items mcluded m a proposal "GIven the proposal and the staff report, tills Just dIffers so much from what I would hke to see that I can't support It at tills tIme" He would hke to see an outdoor patIo added to Ruby's He sald WIthOUt CIty Council adVIce that tills IS the way they want you to go, he IS not comfortable approvmg the plan as presented MOTION CARRIES: AYES. NOES: 3-2-0 Soukup, Campbell, Dahlman Sharp, Law Mr Wluttenberg sald staff prepared two resolutIons for tills apphcatIon, one for approval and one for demal The resoluoon for demal mcludes appropnate findmgs based on the reductIon of pubhc access area both for fishmg areas and general enjoyment of the pIer Staff would recommend adoptIon of tills resolutIon as Resoluoon No 94-8 Chamnan Dahlman asked how many of the ComffilssIoners agreed WIth mm about a tram and Slgnage bemg more appropnate Issues for the Mam Street Speclfic Plan to conSIder ComffilssIoner Soukup agreed Mr Wluttenberg sald the CommIsslOn could mstruct staff as a separate Item, under ComffilssIon Concerns, to deal WIth those Issues The apphcatIon before the ComffilsSIon IS for specIfic Items and does not dISCUSS a tram ComffilssIoner Dahlman asked for tIme for the ComffilssIoners to read the fmdmgs He mdIcated there are findmgs wmch should be addressed, such as m Secoon 5(d) The pIer and proposed remodeled structure would not be adequate En SIze or shape to accommodate both the proposed use and the exlStlng fishzng and pedestnan uses He dIdn't agree WIth that findmg and that hIS vote would represent agreement WIth that He sald he thmks the ComffilssIon needs to find common ground and hffilt the fmdmgs to the thmgs they can agree on He asked If staff could come back m two weeks WIth another resolutIon wmch more accurately reflects the ComffilssIon's agreement? Mr Wluttenberg sald staff needs dIrectIon on that common ground as staff IS unable to dIscern that based on the dIScussIon to tills orne Chamnan Dahlman, askIng the three ComffilssIoners who voted to deny, satd all the alternatIves mvolve a reductIon m pubhc access and asked If tills IS an appropnate fmdmg? Mr . . . Page 18 - Plannmg CommISSion MInutes of February 23, 1994 WhIttenberg suggested a change to subparagraph Sed) " the pIer and the proposed remodeled structure, which would reduce public access areas available to the general publzc on the pier, would not be adequate " ChaIrman Dahlman saId that would be adequate but If thIS were the best alternatIve he would vote for It But he does not beheve he has seen all the alternatlves he needs to see m order to know that tIus IS the best If you take away from pubhc access you need to look at alternatlves WhICh mc1ude those that do not take away from pubhc access If those are not feasIble, then you can take away pubhc access Mr WhIttenberg saId the COmmISSIOn appears to be saymg that tIus may be a reasonable project but WIthout a reVIew of other alternatlves that decIsIon can't be made "What I thmk what you need to do IS deny tIus apphcatIon and then Just mdIcate --- maybe we need to add an addItlonal paragraph to the findmgs --- that WIthout a reVIew of alternatlves that mIght be consIdered economIcally feaSIble by the apphcant, tIus IS your decIsIon at tIus pomt So you're not precludmg future actIons" Mr Steele saId he was not sure subparagraph (d) IS essentlal to the resolutlon If the COmmISSIOn IS uncomfortable WIth subparagraph (d) but IS comfortable WIth (a), (b) and (c) they are adequate grounds on wluch to deny tIus apphcatlon Charrman Dahlman saId he would add a subparagraph wluch saId approXImately "Adequate alternatlves were not conSIdered to allow the requested reductlon m pubhc access" He suggested the CIty Attorney's Office reVIew tIus and return WIth reVIsed language COmmISSIOner Sharp remmded Charrman Dahlman of the 90 day penod Mr Steele saId he IS concerned WIth the final actlon of the COmmISSIOn COmmISSIOner Campbell saId fmdmg (c) was not correct to her thmkmg, as she dId not fmd the outdoor dmmg area would be detnmental to the surroundmg neIghborhood She does not fmd the concept detnmental, she fmds the amount of space It takes up detnmental Mr WhIttenberg saId the CommIssIon IS deahng only With the space tIus apphcatlon IS requmng Charrman Dahlman asked why the COmmISSIOn had to find the apphcatlon IS detnmental to everybody? Mr Steele saId the murncIpal ~ requIres, WIth regard to CUPs, IS that the Plannmg COmmISSIOn make a fmdmg WIth regard to detnment to the surroundmg neIghborhood If the COmmISSIOn IS denymg thIS apphcatlon based on detnment to the pedestrian access and fishmg access staff would conSIder that to be the surroundmg neIghborhood for tIus proposed use The COmmISSIOn IS stuck WIth that language Chairman Dahlman asked about subparagraph (d) The CIty Attorney has mdIcated that can be deleted Charrman Dahlman Said "I Just cannot beheve that after all tIus dIscussIOn, over all these hours, that you were able pnor to even cOmIng here tornght put out a resolutlon that appropnately summanzes these findmgs It Just doesn't seem nght to me" Mr WhIttenberg . . . Page 19 - Plannmg ColDIDISSlOn Mmutes of February 23, 1994 sald the general dISCUSSIon IS the same dISCUSSIon that took place at the last COmmISSIOn meetIng With no new testlmony COmmISSIOner Campbell dIsagreed, notIng two addItlonal alternatlves were dIstnbuted tomght wIDch were not available In the staff report COmmISSIOner Soukup noted DFG gave comments Charrman Dahlman sald "ThIs IS really being rushed through Do you really thInk It'S 90 days from November 15th?" Mr WhIttenberg explained the apphcatlon was submItted on November 11, 1993 The tlme penod IS 90 days from the date the apphcatlon was deemed complete and the next meetIng IS March 9th Mr WhIttenberg sald the March 9th COmmISSIOn meetIng may exceed the 90 day penod Charrman Dahlman sald he dIdn't thInk the rush or urgency IS a good reason to not get tms apphcatlon the best way It can be done and suggested It should be subject to CIty Attorney reVIew totally The COmmISSIOn dISCUSsed pulling the matter over two weeks, commg back WIth a reVIsed resolutlon and taking a chance It would be approved by default Mr Steele sald If that IS the COmmISSIOn's drrectlon, then staff needs drrectlon as to what the COmmISSIOn wants In the resolutlon If the COmmISSIOn demes the apphcatlon they are requrred to make findmgs, as drrected by the mumcIpal ~, WIth regard to the areas at Issue m the CUP The feasIbility of other alternatlves IS not one of those findmgs The apphcant dIdn't propose other alternatlves Charrman Dahlman sald that the lack of an alteratlve that dId not reduce pubhc access IS the most Important reason for IDS not supportmg tms apphcatlon Mr WhIttenberg addressed tms concern by saYing that when an apphcant files an apphcatlon to the CIty, he was not aware of many Instances where multlple apphcatlons were filed and let the CIty pIck and choose between them It IS most usual for an apphcant to file one apphcatlon and If that IS demed, the apphcant can appeal to the CIty Councu or can file a new and dIfferent apphcatlon on WhICh Pubhc Hearings are held Secondly, the CIty mailed legal Notlce letters indIcatIng there would be a Pubhc Heanng on December 9th That means the Planmng Department conSIdered the apphcatlon complete before December 9th The CIty'S nmety-day tlme penod will be at least March 8th, the next COmmISSIOn meeung IS March 9th DISCUSSIon ensued on the computatlon of the nmety days and when the apphcatlon was deemed complete COmmISSIOner Sharp sald he couldn't understand the CommISSIOn's feehngs that pubhc access IS bemg demed because the apphcant IS plannmg to put In access ramps for the handIcapped, extra restrooms COmmISSIOner Soukup sald the confiscatlon and reductlon bemg talked about IS Ruby's would be taking a SIgnature pIer wIDch IS the ultlmate statement for the CIty and convertmg It to pnvate use at the end of the pIer and makIng It dIfficult for people on bikes or people m general to go out to the end of the pIer and enJoy what they are used to enJoYing COmmISSIOner Soukup sald he beheved Ruby's could come back to the COmmISSIOn WIth a project very SImuar to the one bemg demed, WIth some shght dIfferences, and they don't need to do too much as long as It IS techmcally dIfferent Charrman Dahlman asked If the resolutlon to deny tms CUP IS satlsfactory to the other members of the maJonty? Mr Steele sald staff has counted the days and If the apphcatlon was deemed complete on December 8th, the day before the Notlces were mailed, the March 9th meetlng would be 92 days . . . Page 20 - Plannmg Comnusslon Minutes of February 23, 1994 MOTION by Soukup, SECOND by Dahlman to deny CombtIonal Use Penmt #93-15 through the adoptIon of ResolutIon No. 94-8 with sub-paragraph (d) of SectIon 5 deleted. MOTION CARRIED: AYES: NOES 4-1-0 Soukup, Dahlman, Law, Campbell Sharp Mr Whtttenberg saId ResolutIOn No 94-8 IS approved and the appeal penod starts Immediately The final resolutlon will be pnnted tomorrow, as modified by the Motlon tomght *** ORAL COMMUNICATIONS There were no oral commumcatlons from the audience STAFF CONCERNS Bolsa Chlca Letter Mr Whtttenberg saId he prOVIded a copy of the City Council's response letter to Orange County on the Bolsa ChIca Draft EIR for the CommIssIOn's mformatlon ReVised Time Schedule/Main Street Specific Plan Mr Whtttenberg saId he also prOVided, for the Commission's mformatlon, a revised tlme schedule for the lnltlatlon of the MaIn Street Specific Plan based on diSCUSSions With the consultant ThIs process will begm m mId-April to allow staff to obtam updated parkmg and traffic counts from 5th to 12th Streets COMMISSION CONCERNS Neighborhood Watch CommIssioner Soukup asked If staff had followed up on hIs earher request regardmg the Neighborhood Watch program? Mr Whtttenberg saId he has not followed up on thIs and saId he would CommISSioner Soukup Said he would appreciate seemg thIs done as soon as IS pOSSible Surf side TraIler ChaIrman Dahlman saId the CommIssion had notlfied staff that a traIler m Surf side was bemg hved m For a penod of tlme the traIler was unoccupied and put up for sale Now It IS bemg OCCUpied agaIn Mr CurUs saId he would go out and take a look at It Crestview Patlo VIOlatlon Chairman Dahlman referenced a homeowner on Crestview Dnve that had a patlo m vlolatlon of the eXlsung ordmances The City wanted to postpone enforcement on that while the ordmances had been changed He asked If these ordmances have been changed? Mr CurUs . . . Page 21 - Planning Commission Minutes of February 23, 1994 sat.d no, the ordmances have not been changed but that Issue will be coming back before the Plannmg CommIssIon WIthin the next SIX weeks. What was changed dealt WIth what could be built along artenal streets. The back yards along CrestvIew Dnve dealt WIth pano covered structures and walls along propertles backing to the Hellman property but this homeowner's deck structure IS not the type of structure whlch thls ~ amendment dealt WIth. Congratulate Man of the Year Nommee Charrman Dahlman sat.d the Commission would like to congratulate Chuck Feenstra, a member of the Development Services Department, on bemg nommated for Man of The Year. He dId great work gettIng Walt's Wharf open after therr rrre. The Comffilsslon agreed that they want a letter be sent congratulatlng Mr. Feenstra. Welcome BJ's PIZza Comffilssioner Soukup welcomed BI's PIZza to the City and wIshed them well. ADJOURNMENT Charrman Dahlman adjourned the meeting at 10:30 Respectfully Subffiltted: ~~~" Joan tllmann Recordmg Secretary APPROVAL: The Mmutes of the February 23, 1994 Plannmg CommIssIon meetlng were approved by the Commissioners on March 9, 1994. *