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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Min 1998-11-18 I. . . , CITY OF SEAL BEACH PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA for NOVEMBER 18,1998 7:30 P.M.. city Council Chambe... 211 Eighth Street, Seal Beach, CA 90740 Next Resolution: 98-39 I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE II. ROLL CALL III. AGENDA APPROVAL By Motion of the Planning Commission, this is the time to: (a) Notify the public of any changes ts> the Agenda; (b) Re-arrange the order of the Agenda; and/or (c) Provide an opportunity for any member of the Planning Commission, staff, or public to request an item is removed from the Consent Calendar for separate action. IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS At this time, members of the public may address the Planning Commission regarding any items within the subject matter jurisdiction of the Planning Commission, provided that the Planning Commission may undertake no action or discussion unless otherwise authorized by law. V. CONSENT CALENDAR Items on the Consent Calendar are considered to be routine and are enacted by one motion unless prior to enactment, a member of the Planning Commission, staff or the public requests a specific item be removed from the Consent Calendar for separate action. 1. Approve Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of November 4, 1998 VI. SCHEDULED MATTERS 2. Consider Request for Time Extension from Daniel Mundy for 320 Central Avenue. Conditional Use Pennit 97-12 3. Detennination of Consistency at 143 Main Street Conditional Use Pennit 92-13 (CUP 98-18) New Floor Plan for Hennessey's Restaurant 1 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Agenda of November 18, 1998 '. VII. PUBLIC HEARINGS 4. Bixby Old Ranch Towne Center [Matter to be Tabled] East side of Seal Beach Boulevard from St. Cloud Drive to Rossmoor Center Way Site Plan Review 98-1 Conditional Use Pennits 98-16 and 98-17 Variances 98-6 and 98-7 Height Variation 98-5 Planned Sign Program 98-1 Request: to construct a 25-acre commercial shopping center within an area proposed for General Commercial (C-2) zoning, containing approximately 297,648 square feet of building area In accordance with the concept plan analyzed as a component of the Bixby Old Ranch Towne Center EIR. 6. Conditional Use Pennit 98-15 [Matter to be Tabled] Address: Southeast Comer of Lampson Ave. & Seal Beach Blvd. Applicant: Marriott Senior Uving Services Property Owner. Bixby Ranch Company Request: Consider building a 3-story and a 1-story structure to house a 160-bed facility (90-bed assisted living, 25-bed Alzheimer's Care, 45-bed Skilled Nursing). This project has been analyzed as a component of the Bixby Old . Ranah Towne Center EIR. Recommendation: Pleasure of the Planning Commission 6. Anaheim Bay Villas Negative Declaration 98-3 General Plan Amendment 98-2 Zone Change 98-2 Address: 321 Seal Beach Boulevard Applicant: Dave Bartlett & Associates Property Owner. Ellen G. Musso, et al Request: To demolish existing commercial structures and construct eight (8) single family residences. Recommendation: Approval through the adoption of Resolutions Nos.: 0 98- _ for Negative Declaration 98-3 0 98-_ for General Plan Amendment 98-1 0 98-_ for Zone Change 98-1 VIII. STAFF CONCERNS , IX. COMMISSION CONCERNS . X. ADJOURNMENT 2 " \ 'e . . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission · Agenda of November 18, 1998 1998 AGENDA FORECAST DEC 09 DEC 23 1999 AGENDA FORECAST JAN 06...................... CUP 87-2. 222 Main St. · Howard Brief (10/21/98) JAN 20 FEB 03......................12147 S.B.B.. Seal Beach Martet. Review#47;Sales began 2-10-98. FEB 17 MAR 03 , MAR 17 APR 07....................CUP 98-8. 12161 S.B.B.. Champs Drive Thru Window@ 12 mos. APR 21 MAY 05 MAY 19 JUN 09 JUN 23 JUL 07 JUL 21 AUG 04 AUG18 SEP 08............... ....CUP 98-12 @ 1101 P.C.H.: Review Vons @ 12 mos.l24 hr. operation. SEP 22 OCT 06 OCT 20 NOV 03 NOV17 DEC 08 DEC 22 Pending Matters Not Agendized: lJ Study Session: Three-story struC1ures on Main Street lJ Study Session: Height Umits in Commercial Zones (P.CampbeIl7/27/98) lJ Study Session: Noise Standards in C2 Zones (P. Campbell 7/27/98) lJ Study Session: Permitted Uses & Develop. Stds. in Commercial Zones [From 5/6198] lJ Staff Report: Undergrounding of Utilities lJ Staff Report: Update on Decks along Crestview Avenue lJ ZT A on issue of side-yard setbacks along stub streets in the Gold Coast area of Ocean Avenue (from 3-4-98) And Beyond... Calendar: April 2001: CUP 98-6 @ 12147 Seal Beach Boulevard (Yucatan Grill) Review ADA handicapped-accessible restroom. (36 months from April 1998). , 3 . CITY OF SEAL BEACH PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES for NOVEMBER 18, 1998 The regularly scheduled Planning Commission meeting of November 18, 1998 was called to order by Chairman Brown at 7:30 p.m. in City Council Chambers. The meeting began with the Salute to the Flag. ROLL CALL Present: Chairman Brown Commissioners Larson, Lyon, Hood, Cutuli Also Present: Department of Development Services Lee Whittenberg, Director Craig Steele, Assistant City Attorney Joan Fillmann, Executive Secretary AGENDA APPROVAL . Chairman Brown clarified item #3, regarding Hennessey's at 143 Main Street, is a Scheduled Matter and not a Public Hearing item. Mr. Whittenberg agreed, noting that the Planning Commission could choose to receive comments on that item if it so desires. With a consensus of the Commission, Chairman Brown said the Commission would allow people to speak on that item. Commissioner Hood said this agenda packet was delivered late, arriving Monday instead of Friday. He said he felt inadequately prepared to deal with tonight's agenda. He proposed the Commission not make any decisions on tonight's agenda items and suggested all final decisions be postponed to the next meeting. Chairman Brown asked for clarification. Was he suggesting postponing discussing the agenda items or the final decisions? Commissioner Hood said he would like to hold the Public Hearings tonight because many members of the public are present but, Commission discussion and voting should be postponed. . Mr. Whittenberg said staff apologized for the delay in packet delivery. The packets were ready to go out on Thursday and he was not certain why they weren't delivered. He said this is the first and only time this has happened in ten years. 1 ; . . . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 Commissioner Hood said he was sure the delay wasn't intentional but it did happen. He thought the Commission needed more time to review the materials. MOTION by Hood; SECOND by Lyon to postpone any final determinations or action on all the Agenda items tonight. This would include tabling items #4 and #5 and consideration of item #2. Before the vote, Commission Larson said he read the materials and was prepared to act tonight. "You'd have to be a blind pig to not know what's on something that's in front of us. And I don't like you saying we, the Commission, are not ready. You may not be ready and that's your right." Regarding item #2, Mr. Whittenberg said Mr. Mundy's CUP approval would expire on December 3, 1998 unless the Commission takes action tonight. Mr. Steele suggested another option, that the Planning Commission goes forward with the agenda, taking each item in turn. If they feel they haven't had time to consider it, then postpone it. Rather than making a blanket decision up front that no decisions can be made tonight. Commissioner Hood said his concern was to postpone voting on final actions, as it is not fair to make final decisions when there hasn't been enough study time. Mr. Steele said every action on tonight's agenda is a final action. Commissioner Hood said he would be willing to consider each item one by one. He withdrew his Motion. He was glad the Commission had this discussion because he felt this Commission deserves to have its materials delivered on time. MOTION by Hood; SECOND by Larson to approve the Agenda as amended. MOTION CARRIED: AYES: 5-0 Hood, Larson, Brown Lyon, Cutuli ORAL COMMUNICATIONS Donald Schumacher, Pastor, Grace Community Church Pastor Schumacher wanted to speak on Hennessey's relocation. Chairman Brown asked him to wait for Scheduled Matters. Grea Miller * 321 Seal Beach Boulevard Mr. Miller wanted to speak on the Anaheim Bay Villas proposal. Chairman Brown asked him to wait for item #6. 2 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Charles Antos * 205 1 ih Street. Seal Beach Mr. Antos wanted to speak on the Hennessey's Tavem relocation. Chairman Brown asked him to wait for item #3 at Scheduled Matters. Rea Clewlev * Catalina Avenue. Seal Beach Mr. Clewley said the Agenda packet was delivered late and the public has been deprived of the opportunity to formulate comments on the agenda. It's inappropriate to hear any of these items tonight. Regarding the issues re Howard Brief, he wondered why the Howard Brief matter was put back to January 6, 1999. Regarding next year's agenda, he said there was to be an update on the decks along Crestview Avenue. What is this update for? How many newly constructed decks have been built? Staff has refused to take complaints re illegal construction along Catalina/Crestview/Surf Place because this matter is pending. Regarding who runs the City, Mr. Clewley asked why is it staff decides who runs this City? Why can staff decide we're not going to prosecute people who don't like the law? He said the Commission should stop being puppets of City staff who choose to dispose of items from the Agenda that they feel they'd rather not deal with. CONSENT CALENDAR . MOTION by Lyon; SECOND by Hood to approve the Consent Calendar: 1. Approve Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of November 4, 1998 MOTION CARRIED: AYES: 5-0 Hood, Larson, Brown, Cutuli, Lyon SCHEDULED MATTERS 2. Consider Request for Time Extension from Daniel Mundy for 320 Central Avenue · Conditional Use Permit 97-12 Mr. Whittenberg said Daniel Mundy is asking for a six months extension on CUP 97 -12 which is due to expire on December 3, 1998. MOTION by Hood; SECOND by Larson to approve a six months extension for CUP 97-12 at 320 Central Avenue. . 3 .. City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . 3. Determination of Consistency at 143 Main Street Conditional Use Permit 92-13 (CUP 98-18) New Floor Plan for Hennessey's Restaurant Staff Report Mr. Whittenberg presented the staff report. [Staff report on file in the Planning Department for inspection]. Mr. Whittenberg explained any substantial changes to a floor plan would be brought to the Planning Commission for a decision on whether a new CUP is needed. Commission Questions of Staff Chairman Brown asked if the Planning Commission decides to hold hearings for a new CUP, will the applicant request patio dining? Conversely, if no hearings are held, will the applicant not request patio dining? Mr. Whittenberg said the plans show a patio facing Main Street. St~ff told the applicant a patio would automatically require a CUP. The applicant said he would rather not go through the CUP process at this time. . Chairman Brown asked about the issue of closing the front door, asking if the Main Street Specific Plan (MSSP) spoke to this issue? Mr. Whittenberg said the MSSP requires a certain percentage of the doorway frontage to be glass but it does not require that you to have a door. Some Main Street buildings have courtyard situations. Chairman Brown asked what the exact criteria are for requiring a new CUP? Mr. Steele explained a CUP runs with the land, not with the business applying for it. If a business closes for one year, a new CUP is automatically required. The standard for amending a CUP, or for a new CUP, is a significant change in the use that would create different impact. Specific facts that might require an amendment of a condition might require a new CUP. That condition may have been applicable to a previous business but is not applicable to this business. City of Seal Beach alcohol uses are unique because the Planning Commission approves a specific floor plan as part of the CUP process. That is the reason this matter is before the Commission. Chairman Brown asked about the elimination of a condition, noting Papillion's was able to have amplified music. . Mr. Whittenberg said Papillion's has two CUPs, one to sell alcoholic beverages and one to have entertainment. Each has its own conditions of approval. The new property owner can utilize both CUPs as long as he complies with the conditions of approval. The applicant said he does not anticipate using the entertainment CUP at this time, but may in the future. 4 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Commissioner Larson clarified the fact that the change of ownership is not the moving cause for this determination. If the former owner wanted to remodel, they would have to come before the Planning Commission. Chairman Brown asked Mr. Steele to define "significant change". Mr. Steele said if you look at the Code under conditionally permitted uses in the MSSP zone, you find a list of conditionally permitted uses. If you change from one category of use to another category of use that's a significant change of the use and requires a new CUP. Mr. Whittenberg read the Code requirements on this issue. Chairman Brown said the Code talks about mode and character of the operation and says nothing about the floor plan. For example, if a business went from a Chinese restaurant to a bar, that could be a significant change. Mr. Whittenberg said the issue that has come up in the City is the operation of a restaurant more as a bar than as a restaurant. This particular application has a larger bar area proposed as a result of the reconfiguration. . Commissioner Larson said page 3 of the report says the existing rest rooms are not handicapped-accessible, with 70 square feet. The next paragraph says the restrooms are 164 square feet. Mr. Whittenberg said the second figure includes the hallway area, which provides access to the restrooms. Mr. Steele said the floor plan does have an effect on the mode and character of an establishment. The municipal Code does not provide for floor plan but mode and character are. Commissioner Hood asked for factual information on mode and character. If you're talking about mode and character, and if you have a bar which serves food, or a restaurant which serves alcoholic drinks, those are two different things, correct? Mr. Whittenberg said under the State Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control Act they are. This establishment is licensed as a restaurant which serves alcoholic beverages. Under ABC criteria the restaurant has to comply with a certain percentage of food sales versus alcohol sales on a quarterly basis. ABC enforces this. . Commissioner Hood asked if records were kept on what was sold in each category? 5 , City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Mr. Whittenberg said records would have to be kept. Commissioner Hood said before he made his decision, he would want to know ABC's figures on percentage of food sales and alcohol sales for the current Hennessey's and Papillion's. This is a bar operator taking over a restaurant. If that occurs, particularly if they have a 33% increase in the size of the bar area, you would want to make certain you didn't wind up with a bar serving a little bit of food. Mr. Whittenberg said the requirements for the percentage of sales between alcohol and food is an ABC mandate; the City is not involved in this issue. Commissioner Hood said he is aware of this but thought it would be an indicator of mode and character of an operation. Mr. Whittenberg said if the premise operator violates his ABC conditions he would be fined and or sanctioned by ABC under their regulations. If it continues for more than a quarter, ABC will inform the City of that and the City can deal with it if they wish under the City's CUP process. . Commissioner Hood said when the Director was asked if the mode and character of this operation could be ascertained by floor plan he waffled on his answer and said "Not necessarily". Commissioner Hood said he was therefore suggesting another tactic -- would a change in the liquor sales or food sales be an indicator on whether the mode or character has changed? Mr. Steele advised ABC has bright line standards of what's a bar and what's a restaurant. If Hennessey's was apply to ABC to change their license, for example from a bar to a restaurant selling alcohol at a new location, we would certainly say that is a change in the mode and character of operation. Similarly, if they were going the opposite way, it would be a more obvious indicator on a change of mode and character. Stepping back from that concept, the City would look at that license change as a new CUP because a CUP for a restaurant requires a particular type of license. If somebody came in and wanted a new type of license the City would look at that as a new CUP. Along the lines of what Commissioner Hood is suggesting, the bright line standard of what's a change in mode and character is, are they trying to change their license or are they just sticking with the type of license they've got and moving from one location to another? In that context, ABC has particular criteria . and if they meet that, they get along fine. 6 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission'" Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Chairman Brown indicated the ABC license goes with the business and the CUP goes with the land. It's extremely difficult to prove that a restaurant is a bar. Conversely, you can walk into an establishment and tell very quickly -- just by using your eyeballs. Commissioner Larson said an objective way of looking at this is what's the overall use devoted to each purpose in the building? You can walk in and see it. If there are a lot of tables and a little bar and then it suddenly changes to a big bar and two tables --- you know it's a different thing. He looked at the figures for this application and felt the changes were almost a wash: Public area reduced by 90' Increasing the bar area by 80' Decreasing the kitchen area by 147' Increasing the restrooms by 150' It's less than a 5% change. The significance is it's potential amount and that would make a difference to him. . Public Hearinq Charles Antos * 205 1 ih Street. Seal Beach Mr. Antos expressed his concerns about Hennessey's compliance with the Conditions of Approval set for Papillion's restaurant. He referred to approved City Council Resolution No. 4197, discussing certain sections. He indicated that there were two businesses, both having CUPs with Conditions of Approval. One was Hennessey's at 140 Main Street and the other was Papillion's at 143 Main Street. If Hennessey's is allowed to move across the street to operate at 143 Main Street, what will ensure that they will comply with the existing Conditions of Approval? What will ensure that Hennessey's doesn't have disc jockey's at their new location? That they won't hold wet T-shirt contests? These events took place at 140 Main Street. If Hennessey's wants patio dining at 143 Main Street, it should be noted that at 140 Main Street Hennessey's didn't keep the screens on the windows and he saw, and has photographs of, a man riding his bicycle down the sidewalk, leaning in the window, picking up a beer, taking a drink, visiting with his friends and riding off down the street. What kind of conditions or insurance do you have that the same type of operation doesn't move from across the street to 143 Main Street ___ before the Commission makes a determination that this is fine? Chairman Brown asked the City Attorney to address these comments and issues. . Referring to Resolution No. 4197, Mr. Steele said case law has changed. It used to be that use permits could be conditioned on non-transferability. Cities thought that CUPs, Variances etc. were permits that were personal to the applicant rather 7 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . than running with the land. Case law change in the early 1990's. The California Supreme Court said that use permits run with the land. Item #2 in Resolution No. 4197 is no longer enforceable. Mr. Whittenberg explained staff presented Resolution No. 4197 to the Commission because it relates to the floor plan for the building as it was approved. Reo Clewlev · Catalina Avenue. Seal Beach Mr. Clewley said the Commission should say "No" to this application because it's a bar moving into a restaurant. It would be adding another bar on Main Street. He said Main Street is not equipped to handle handicapped people, even when they're sober. He said there is no access for wheelchairs and large planters on the sidewalks further impede them. He said there is no code enforcement. Don Schumacher. Pastor. Grace Communitv Church, Seal Beach Pastor Schumacher said his church is just across the alley from 143 Main Street. . Regarding page 3 of the staff report, he indicated it said, "No change of hours is proposed". This matter needs clarification, as he was not sure of Papillion's operating hours. A letter he received yesterday from ABC said the proposed hours would be from 10:00 a.m. to 1 :00 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. on Sunday's. This impacts the church in terms of their security needs and what these needs will cost. The church will experience various property problems that are already evidenced by the fact there are several taverns on that side of Main Street ___ Hennessey's at 143 Main, the Irisher, Clancy's and the Seaside Grill. The church has had major brawls on its property. Late at night they have all kinds of unreligious activities taking place in the back area and a certain amount of litter. If an establishment is open to 1 :00 a.m. who will do the cleanup on the church property between 1 :00 a.m. on Sunday and 7:00 a.m. on Sunday? When the church members begin to arrive the church likes to have a very clean piece of property. Regarding parking, extended hours mean that people will try to park in the 8th Street lot, next to the Fire Department, on Sunday's when they go to dine. The church has rented that lot from the City for their exclusive use on Sunday mornings until 1 :00 p.m. Exceptions to this being Fire Department personnel and those who display a business parking permit. The City does not police it on Sunday; it's an honor system. The hope is you're going to church when you park there. The church doesn't have the personnel to monitor it. He felt City patrols of the lot during those hours would be necessary if there is to be major use of that lot. . The Pastor noted Mr. Whittenberg made reference to a prior parking agreement between Papillion's and Grace Community Church. He said there is a long history to this and he did not want to go into it The Pastor said the reference is 8 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . to a June 18, 1998 agreement. While the Church is not against transferring the agreement to a successor in interest per se, any such successor would have to be a business comparable to Papillion's, being very compatible as a next door neighbor and not negatively impacting the church in any way. Specifically, a saloon would impact the church. Secondly, one month ago, the church's accountant contacted the Orange County Assessor's Office for an opinion on parking. The church contemplates establishing a Christian non-profit counseling center, which would use a couple of their rooms and would need parking. The church was concerned about its non-profit, tax-exempt status. The counseling center would not be a problem, but the Assessor's Office explicitly advised the church that they cannot make property dedicated to non-profit purposes available to a commercial enterprise either for a fee or gratuitously. The church as a non-profit, tax-exempt organization may rescind the agreement should it ever come to the church's attention that the arrangement poses any difficulties as far as their tax status was concerned. The church no longer has parking spaces available for use by anyone other than the church. . Commissioner Larson asked about the date of the parking agreement, indicating it says December 17, 1998. Pastor Schumacher said that should be 1997. He indicated the church wrote this agreement a year ago and it sat with the other party for eight months. He did not talk to the Orange County Assessor's Office; it was their accountant. He would call the Assessor's remarks advisory rather than official. Commissioner Larson explained he used to be the Chief Tax Counsel for the County of Los Angeles and therefore agreed with the Assessor's assessment. Chairman Brown asked the Pastor how many parking spaces the church has? Pastor Schumacher said the church has approximately 15 parking spaces along the alley. About five years ago, half of those spaces were deemed by a gentleman's agreement to be for the supermarket's use. Chairman Brown asked if the church still had that agreement? Pastor Schumacher said it would appear that based on advice from the Orange County Tax Assessor's Office and based on change in the nature of the business, the church would be opposed to that use. A saloon would not be a compatible next door neighbor. . Chairman Brown asked for clarification on whether the Pastor was calling Hennessey's a saloon? 9 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission · Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Pastor Schumacher said "saloon" was his word in the agreement. If there's a nuance between "saloon" and "tavern" he was unaware where it would be. Chairman Brown asked if Howard Brief had the same parking arrangement with the Catholic Church? Mr. Steele said that was one of the arguments Mr. Brief advanced when the City was considering revoking his Variance. The agreement the City reached with Mr. Brief is for the full number of parking spaces required under the City's code. The City didn't rely on the agreement he said he had with the church. . Mitzie Morton * Seal Beach Ms. Morton said she thought the California Coastal Commission (CCC) required seven (7) parking spaces for Papillion's restaurant. In order to qualify Papillion's had to secure an agreement with Grace Community Church. If that agreement was terminated, the CCC was supposed to be notified. That agreement was terminated two years ago and Pastor Schumacher informed the CCC. It was referred back to City Hall and she didn't learn what transpired. She assumed Papillion's was allowed to operate for two years with that nullified agreement. Pastor Schumacher renewed it a few months ago, not knowing at that time that Papillion's was going to sell the business to Hennessey's. The CCC required 23 spaces all told. He took 11 spaces as in-lieu and leased 7 from the church; that's how he qualified to open Papillion's. Ms. Morton said she found it hard to believe the State Supreme Court would designate an entertainment permit had to go with the land. She could understand the rest of the court's decision but she wanted clarification that the court did stipulate also that entertainment permits run with the land. Papillion's was an upscale restaurant and had a fine menu. Nowa tavern, Hennessey's, has applied for that space. When you completely change an interior floor plan, reduce kitchen size by 147 square feet (10 x 14) and extend the bar by 7', and change the seating area --- you've completely changed the floor plan and you should have to apply for a new CUP. Staff cannot say that the above does not increase or decrease the seating capacity because figures are not available on what the prior seating capacity was. Regarding entertainment, the City's residents want to be protected. When the entertainment permit was issued to Papillion's the wording non-transferable was included for protection. The only reason entertainment was granted to Papillion's was because it was a very high-class restaurant and it never impacted the community. . Regarding the building itself, the blueprints show an upstairs comprised of an office, storage area and two baths. This was bootlegged in without permits. It 10 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . should be removed or permits should be obtained. The City's Building Department says the upstairs does not comply with the code. Regarding the patio, it would be outrageous to tear apart this building to allow people to drink outside. Regarding in-lieu parking and mitigation fees. This property should not be allowed to re-open until the $6,325 owed by Papillion's is paid in full and until the $2,300 owed by Hennessey's at 140 Main Street is paid in full. Chairman brown asked who pays the in-lieu parking fees, the property owner or the business owner? Ms. Morton said if the business doesn't pay those fees, it's up to the property owner. But she said we keep saying we don't have any money in our budget and these are just two businesses in town that haven't paid. Papillion's was supposed to pay $1,100 per year for 11 delinquent spaces. She asked the Commission to figure out how much time it took to amass $6,325. . Roaer West * 1301 B Electric Avenue. Seal Beach Mr. West called for a public hearing on the new ownership at 143 Main Street. A CUP is really an unfinished permit if nobody checks on it once it's issued. The ABC mayor may not issue a report on the sale of food versus alcohol but he's never heard of anybody in this town acting upon such a report. He didn't think there was any intent to start now. The original purpose of this building was to sell fine wine and cheese. It grew bit by bit until now we have a paneled, amplified piano bar in a restaurant. Now the applicant wants to jump this site into a saloon. By not enforcing the CUPs on Main Street, the Commission has allowed a situation to arise where "... we have more Irish bars on one block of Main Street than any street in Dublin. We have more liquor outlets on Main Street than they have on Bourbon Street in New Orleans... When will this stop? When will you see what's happening to our community? This is sickening. This should have a full public hearing. I don't know of any other neighborhood in Orange County where there's a bar next to a church...". . David Rosenman * 8th Street. Seal Beach Mr. Rosenman related two conversations he had with former Council members Hastings and Forsythe. He said Marilyn Hastings recalled two problems at 140 Main Street -- one was overcrowding and the other was service of alcohol to minors. She recalled that then-City Manager Jerry Bankston coordinated a session where the Fire Marshall and ABC went in and documented the overcrowding and service to minors. This shows their track record. There is a Hennessey's in Laguna Beach and approximately three months ago they were cited for service to minors. There is a problem with who is operating these Hennessey's. 11 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . He noted Main Street is over-concentrated with alcohol serving establishments and is so stated in the Main Street Specific Plan. This is an intensification, which cannot, in good faith, be gotten around to say there has been no significant change. What will happen here at St. Patrick's Day with the adjacent parking lot if this goes in without a new CUP? Gwen Forsythe recalled both CUPs were appealed and the City Council carefully looked at the menu and didn't want bar creep. He said he talked directly to ABC and they said they would love to go in and audit establishments re the percentages of food to alcohol sales but they just don't have the personnel to do so. . Gail Ayres * 707 Central Avenue, Seal Beach Ms. Ayres recalled some history of Hennessey's when they were located at 140 Main Street. She recalled their $1 beer nights, which caused many problems in town, including parking problems and loud noise. She is now concerned that the side door at 143 Main Street would be the only entrance. Hennessey's has always had and will always have a lot of young people at their establishment. These young people will stand around in that parking lot. She is concerned about using the parking lot, people driving in and out, with the people standing at the only entry and in the lot itself. Also, she and he husband spoke directly to ABC and they were told exactly what Mr. Rosenman just reported, they do not have the time or the staff to audit these places. Rebuttal Paul Hennessey * Owner. Hennessey's Mr. Hennessey said in his discussions with the City he learned that a CUP is transferable unless there's a change in the use. He didn't believe he was changing the use at all -- Papillion's was a full service restaurant and bar and so is Hennessey's Tavern. Regarding square footage, he took some exceptions to the square footage staff reported. He said staff calculated only the sit-down bar but did not calculate the piano bar and lounge area. Papillion's had over 300 square feet of cocktail lounge and bar. Hennessey's would reduce this size by its tenant improvements and is not proposing a lounge area. The kitchen is being revised to make it more efficient. The bathrooms will meet ADA requirements. The name, being Irish, is ".. .just fine". His menu has been upgraded and revamped with more selections and increased prices. The former menu items were approximately $8.95 and the new items will be $12.95. They served approximately 10,000 meals per month at 140 Main Street, approximately 333 per day. Papillion's was doing a much . higher percentage of alcohol to food sales than any of the Hennessey's. 12 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Commissioner Larson said several speakers have testified that they spoke to ABC, he asked if Hennessey's has had any problems with ABC? Mr. Hennessey said, "Absolutely not, all of our restaurants are way above what their requirements are. We do a tremendous amount of lunch and breakfast business... n. Commissioner Larson asked if it was true, to his knowledge, that people come by on bicycles, grab a beer and chat, drive on down the street? Mr. Hennessey said, "I could not honestly tell you it's never happened. We've always had screens on the windows. They would take them down periodically to wash the windows. If someone drove by -- I honestly could not deny it. We were there 13 years, 365 days a week ( sic). If that happened once, I apologize. But it certainly it was not at our encouragement". Commissioner Larson said he was trying to see if there was a pattern or practice. Mr. Hennessey said it certainly was not a pattern or practice. Commissioner Hood said the Commission has been told Hennessey's has some . past due in-lieu parking fees and asked for further clarification on this issue. Mr. Hennessey said that when he took over Papillion's he was told by the owner that he was current on everything. If that were not the case, the fees would obviously be paid up before Hennessey's would be given an occupancy permit. At 140 Main Street, he was there 13 years and paid every year. As far as he is concerned, he is current at 140 Main Street. There was a dispute as to who owned the building in the last year and this is still in litigation. Whoever is qeemed the owner will pay those fees. Chairman Brown asked Mr. Steele who pays the in-lieu fees? . Mr. Steele said ultimately the property owner pays the in-lieu fees. It's a little different in each instance. Agreements have been written based on the type of businesses. Staffs understanding is that at 140 Main Street there has been an on-going dispute over the ownership. What's delinquent is one year's in-lieu fees and that's as a result over this dispute. With regard to the 143 Main Street, Papillion's property, it's good to hear Mr. Hennessey say that the building permit will not be issued until those in-lieu fees are paid. David Rosenman * 8th Street, Seal Beach Mr. Rosenman directed the Commission to Ms. Fillmann who he felt had relevant information from ABC on this issue. 13 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Ms. Fillmann said she had talked to Inspector Rose at ABC. He told her Hennessey's is applying to ABC to move their license from 140 to 143 Main Street. The old license would get a new ABC number and would be subject to new license requirements. City plans show a patio, although a patio not a part of this application. ABC said they don't show any patio on their diagram and Mr. Hennessey answered "no" to all patio-related questions. Hennessey applied to ABC for hours of 7:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. ABC said no, keep the hours at 10:00 a.m. to 1 :00 a.m. Hennessey's applied to ABC for live entertainment but didn't describe it. ABC said no live entertainment. ABC said the location of 143 Main Street is in a high-crime, over-concentrated area. Mr. Whittenberg said there are numbers of establishments in town that have approved CUPs with hours of operation differing from ABC hours. If there are two different sets of hours, the business must conform to the City's hours. Rea Clewlev * Catalina. Seal Beach Mr. Clewley said there is some dispute as to who owes these in-lieu parking fees. The City's history on collection of these fees is that the City will not be collecting any in-lieu parking fees from those who wish not to pay them. The City is paid from the generosity of people's hearts not because there's effective enforcement. He suggested the City get its money up front and then we'll decide who gets their . money back when the issue is cleared up. The Chair closed the discussion. Commission Deliberation Chairman Brown said there is irony to this whole issue. Papillion's started out as a fine restaurant and worked its way into a bar. Now some of the same people who were calling it a bar now say it was a fine restaurant. He said the issue is whether this is a significant change in the mode and character of the business. You can do the eyeball test and tell there's a big difference between the two establishments. It would definitely be worth having a public hearing on the CUP. There are enough issues in doubt. That would be the time to allow us to consider additional conditions to address some of these conditions. Commissioner Cutuli said it would be wise to have a public hearing on this matter since there are issues to consider. Commissioner Hood said"... It is the high-ball test". . Commissioner Larson said this is a serious matter to the owners and the public and he didn't appreciate "these constant little jokes... ". The Planning Director has indicated it does not make a difference who the owner is. If the present owner wanted to make these changes the same issues would be before us. However, if the present owner were making this request we'd have a history of the operation. This is not the case. And, there appears to be a different history 14 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission · Minutes of November 18, 1998 . as to the operation of Hennessey's. The people who testified said that this new restaurant would be the same as the old restaurant. The only way the Commission can really get at that is to have a Public Hearing allows everyone to come in and testify. Chairman Brown asked how the Motion should be worded? Mr. Whittenberg suggested the Motion could say "To determine the proposed interior remodel was a significant change, enough to require a Public Hearing before the Planning Commission for modification of the previous f/90r plan approved through Conditional Use Permit 92-13". It will be a new CUP application for interior floor plan modifications. Because the applicant has to come before the Commission for that item, the Commission may want to consider additional modifications to the Conditions of Approval as part of that request. Mr. Steele said the Planning Commission is making a determination that the existing CUP, that runs with the land for an alcohol-related land use entitlement, needs to amended because the existing CUP approved a particular floor plan and this applicant wants a different floor plan. The Commission needs to amend that condition which says, "the floor plan shall be as follows" to make it say, "the . floor plan shall be this other floor plan". Commissioner Cutuli asked if this applicant decided to leave the existing floor plan would there be Public Hearing? Mr. Whittenberg said yes, this applicant couldn't do that because of the ADA requirement on the restrooms. Commissioner Lyon asked if there were any way to tie into the $6,300 debt before this is approved? Chairman Brown said the Commission could come in with conditions and that could become one of the new conditions. . Mr. Steele said staff is asking the Commission do you want to have a hearing on the new floor plan? That's all that's being requested. The in-lieu fees are a different issue. Staff told the applicant some time ago that building permits would not be issued unless the delinquent in-lieu fees were paid. He said he gets the feeling that members of the Commission may be thinking about an expanded hearing on the transfer of the business, or whether new conditions are needed. If that's the case, the Commission always has the jurisdiction to discuss whether modifications are needed to the CUP, whether a CUP ought to be revoked; that's a different process. This applicant is asking for an amendment to one condition on the existing CUP and that is, can he change the floor plan? It's a limited 15 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . purpose application and will be coming back to the Planning Commission for a Public Hearing. Chairman Brown asked if, at that Public Hearing, the end result would be a new CUP or amendments, or what? Is the door open to amending all conditions? Mr. Steele said we're talking about amendments to the existing CUP. The door is not open by this application to "sky is the limit" conditions. The Commission has the jurisdiction to look at operations, propose conditions of both CUP permits where necessary. He suggested the Commission place a review period on this CUP to see whether additional conditions are needed, or to modify the CUP based on the new owner; this is a good opportunity to do that. Commissioner Larson asked about signage. Mr. Steele said the Commission doesn't control the content of signs. The Chair asked if the only thing the Commission can do is determine a new CUP for a new floor plan? . Mr. Steele said that unless a business is non-functioning for one year, and does not use its CUP, the Commission would never have a situation where it can decide a new CUP is needed unless a change in use takes place. The property has an existing CUP that runs with the land for an alcohol-related land use entitlement. However, if the Commission has evidence, it retains jurisdiction to hold hearings to revoke or modify the CUP. This issue was seen with Nip 'n Stuff Liquor. They moved across the street and simply transferred a license from one location to another. Chairman Brown said that at Nip 'n Stuff staff did come in with new conditions. Mr. Whittenberg said it was a different situation in that Nip 'n Stuff moved to a building, which had no prior CUP for an alcohol-related land use. In this case, Hennessey's would be taking over an existing facility. There are certain rights this property already has and they cannot be changed unless adverse conditions are demonstrated. Commissioner Larson asked Mr. Steele if the Commission holds a Public Hearing on a new CUP all considers limited to interior modification and not past business practices in a prior location? Mr. Steele said yes. . Chairman Brown asked if during that hearing there was testimony that the conditions of an existing permit are not being fully complied with, can the Commission look at those issues? 16 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission · Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Mr. Steele said the Commission could schedule a hearing on modification or revocation of the CUP or, it could place a three-month or six-month review period on what's being requested. That way, the Commission could look at this use in its new location and decide whether modifications are needed. Commissioner Larson said he would hate to hold a hearing and the only thing the Commission could do was to approve it --- having heard nothing about the operation, conditions etc. People said the old Hennessey's did not work correctly, or they were a nuisance or whatever. You're telling us that is not germane to this decision. Mr. Steele said in this particular application it's material if the change in floor plan for Hennessey's would somehow make that use less compatible than the previous floor plan. Commissioner Lyon said Mr. Hennessey brought up a problem of the square footage of Papillion's restaurant versus the new tenant improvements for Hennessey's. Perhaps the figures should be reworked to compute what the eating area waslis versus what the drinking area was/is. . Chairman Brown said that would be a good thing to discuss during a Public Hearing. Commissioner Larson said he would like to hear evidence of what kinds of things people object to that are occurring at Hennessey's now so the Commission can be sure it places enough conditions so that those things don't happen at 143 Main Street. He's said he's never seen a wet T-shirt contest but didn't think that would be appropriate at a restaurant. MOTION by Brown; SECOND by Hood to schedule a Public Hearing before the Planning Commission for modification of the previous floor plan approved through Conditional Use Permit 92-13. MOTION CARRIED: AYES: 5-0 Brown, Hood, Larson, Cutuli, Lyon Mr. Whittenberg said once the application has been deemed complete, staff will Notice as it normally does for a Public Hearing. . Chairman Brown asked if anything could be done to improve the legibility of the microfilm copies? Mr. Whittenberg said staff has called the company who maintains the microfiche reader and hopefully it can be adjusted to make the copies more legible. 17 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . RECESS: RECONVENE: 9:43 p.m. 9:55 p.m. PUBLIC HEARINGS Chairman Brown asked staff what items #4 and #5 were about? Mr. Whittenberg said these matters were scheduled for Public Hearing based on applications submitted. During Staff Concerns he will provide additional information based on City Council actions. The following two items were tabled: 4. Bixby Old Ranch Towne Center Site Plan Review 98-1 Conditional Use Permits 98-16 and 98-17 Variances 98-6 and 98-7 Height Variation 98-5 Planned Sign Program 98-1 . 5. Conditional Use Permit 98-15 Address: Southeast Corner of Lampson Ave. & Seal Beach Blvd. 6. Anaheim Bay Villas 321 Seal Beach Boulevard Negative Declaration 98-3 General Plan Amendment 98-2 Zone Change 98-2 Staff Report The Director presented the staff report. [Staff report on file in the Planning Department for inspection]. The applicant, David Bartlett & Associates for property owner, Ellen G. Musso, et ai, request approval to demolish an existing commercial structure and construct eight (8) single family, two-story residences. . Mr. Whittenberg explained this matter was before the Commission on September 23, 1998 at which time the applicant requested to build nine new single family residences. The Planning Commission denied that request. The Commission then requested staff prepare the appropriate resolutions for consideration at the 18 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . next meeting. On October 7, 1998, the resolutions were presented to the Commission but the Commission took no action on them, instead forwarded a request to the City Council to authorize the Planning Commission to hold public hearings on Seal Beach Boulevard as a whole. On October 26th the Council instructed the Commission to finalize its deliberations on the pendin~ application and review Seal Beach Boulevard at a future date. On November 4t , staff advised the Commission of this Council direction and requested the application be tabled until the applicant submitted a revised development proposal. The revised proposal was based on concerns expressed by the public, the Commission and the Council. The proposal now is to vary the lot sizes, create eight parcels varying in width from 26' to 3D', and to build eight homes. No Variances are requested. All side setbacks will be met. Commission Questions to Staff Chairman Brown asked if this is a continued Public Hearing? . Mr. Steele said this is a new Public Hearing. At the last meeting the Chair closed that Public Hearing and forwarded a recommendation to the City Council. Chairman Brown said the Brown Act prevents the Commissioners from speaking in private with parties for an application under consideration. If a Commissioner does speak with someone, he must disclose that conversation to the Commission. Mr. Steele advised the Brown Act does not prohibit conversations but if the Commissioners do have conversations outside the Record they need to disclose those conversations. Chairman Brown asked, for the Record, if any of the Commissioners have had communications with the applicant or his representatives prior to tonight's meeting? Commissioner Lyon said no, he had no communication. Commissioner Hood said he was telephoned by Mr. Bartlett who wanted to discuss the matter with him. He said he was uncomfortable doing that. . Commissioner Cutuli said he was telephoned by Mr. Bartlett. This was prior to his learning that Commissioners weren't supposed to talk to applicants or their representatives. They basically discussed what the plan was going to involve. He didn't discuss any Commission decision. 19 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Commissioner Larson said Mr. Bartlett had telephoned him. He told Mr. Bartlett it was not appropriate for him to discuss the matter with him. Chairman Brown said Mr. Bartlett telephoned him. He advised Mr. Bartlett that Planning Commissioners are not supposed to speak with applicants, or their representatives, prior to a Public Hearing. This would have to be disclosed. He said "What I heard was "Well that's the way it's always been done''''. The Chairman indicated that as long as he's been on the Commission this is not the way things have been done. He wanted to be certain that everyone was on the same, level playing field and was abiding by the same rules. Public Hearinq David Bartlett Mr. Bartlett said that in response to the Chairman's comments, neither he nor the property owner made any contacts with any of the Commissioners since they made the changes to this plan. He left a message on the Chairman's telephone answering machine that if there were any questions he could call him. The conversations he had with the Commissioners dealt with the previous plan and occurred two to three months ago. . He has been busy revising the previous plan. They reviewed the videotape of the September 23rd Commission meeting to better understand the concern of the Commission. They met with the City Manager, City Engineer and City Planning Director. They also looked at the General Plan at length as it relates to this site. They met with some of the City Council members individually and with some residents and business owners on Seal Beach Boulevard. The Musso's hosted an open house to receive input on the plan. All this information was compiled and resulted in the revised plan. He reminded the Commission of the facts regarding this site: o This site contains residential uses on all sides except for one parcel. o Traffic is 1/Sth the standard levels for commercial locations. o The average daily trips (ADTs) are similar to other residential streets. o The General Plan's Land Use Element specifically references Seal Beach Boulevard south of Landing. It does not designate the area of Seal Beach Boulevard between Landing and Pacific Coast Highway as a commercial corridor. o The zoning is C-2, the most intense classification allowed. The revised application has the following changes: . o All Variance requests were eliminated. o Project meets all Code requirements. o One lot has been removed to vary the street scene. 20 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 '. o Lots are now wider than 25'. o There are three architectural motifs: Craftsman, Mediterranean and Spanish. o The front wall was eliminated in favor of an articulated half wall. Mario Musso * Property Owner Mr. Musso thanked the Commission and the community for their input on this project. They feel they have been responsive to everyone's concerns. The overwhelming comments from the community were most responsive and enthusiastic. Finally something positive will be done for this section of Seal Beach Boulevard. He presented the Commission with two letters from neighbors who are not able to attend this meeting. He explained they are attempting to down zone this site because it lacks commercial viability. Jim Goodson. Architect Mr. Goodson said the revised project, with its articulated half wall, brings a non- uniform look to the site. They have tried to more closely emulate the existing character of Old Town with its mix of architectural styles, rather than have the uniform project mode. . Chairman Brown asked about the two site plans. Mr. Goodson said there were two different looks at the variable lot sizes. The plan they based all their graphics and final design on is revised option one. . GreQ Miller * Sandpiper Bicycle Shop. Seal Beach Boulevard Mr. Miller said the City Council told the Commission to study what was best for Seal Beach Boulevard. This is a revised project and does not address what the Council wanted. The houses will kill the businesses because businesses need businesses to survive. He felt the Director slid this project by and got it on this calendar. He said he and many other merchants have not been approached or advised on the Council's direction. What's best for Seal Beach Boulevard is commercial. The City gets no money from houses. Marcia Katz * 14th Street. Seal Beach Ms. Katz said she was not solicited to come talk tonight but she wants to, in order to let the Commission know how she and her neighbors feel. They would like to see residential building on Seal Beach Boulevard. Increased traffic and speed would be detrimental to the area. Businesses should stay on Main Street and Pacific Coast Highway. Scott Redsun * Avalon Homes Mr. Redsun introduced himself as the President of Avalon Homes and noted they are building five new residences at 1 ih Street and Pacific Coast Highway. He has been honored by the Musso family to develop this project if it's approved. He worked with Mr. Bartlett to revise the previous plan to meet the Commission's 21 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . concerns and community's concerns. There is a reason for this lot configuration. The idea was to create a minimum 20' wide house because it does a lot for the livability of a house. For example, you get a full-size, standard garage. With a 20' wide house you can get standard size bedrooms. He felt the new plan would be more aesthetically pleasing. . Walter Miller * Seal Beach Boulevard Mr. Miller said this is an excellent residential project but should be in a residential area. He used the wall charts to illustrate that he views this site as a commercial area. It's more of a business street than Main Street is and it's the same width. The traffic figures are not accurate and may be of 1991 vintage. Approving this project would take the commercial heart out of Seal Beach Boulevard. Regarding the L-C zone, nothing has happened since 1991 despite how much he wanted it to happen. Main Street, with a high parking problem, pays $100 per delinquent parking space. There is no parking problem on Seal Beach Boulevard but he was required to pay $500 per space. That's not encouraging people to come to Seal Beach Boulevard. The City wanted to put in diagonal parking but that slows people down. Main Street does not have fast traffic because they have diagonal parking and cross walks. That was supposed to happen on Seal Beach Boulevard but it never happened. "Why are we doing this whole thing without a plan?" There is no plan for Seal Beach Boulevard and businesses don't come because of it. The Commission asked Mr. Steele to restate what the Commission should do at this time as it is 10:45 p.m. Mr. Steele said the Commission needs to determine the rest of the agenda, not to hear new items and to hear Staff Concerns. The Chair indicated 5 people have asked to speak on this issue. The Chair said the Commission would take the remaining testimony until 11 :30 p.m. and then finish its remaining items. Any remaining items would be carried forward to the next meeting. . Seretta Fieldinq * 223 Seal Beach Boulevard. Seal Beach Ms. Fielding introduced herself as the owner of Growing Tree Preschool. She said that Mr. Miller's area and her area are not part of this block. What the Commission decides tonight will not change their L-C zoning. Nothing has been done on this block because it's extremely difficult to get commercial loans for that street. It is not a high enough commercial area. Banks will not look twice at it. You cannot get a residential loan for that street if you have a business on the first floor. Therefore you have to find a mixed loan, which are extremely hard to get. Therefore there is no improvement on the block. Combined with the fact that the City has not put money into the block and this has made Seal Beach Boulevard what it is today. That's not the Musso family's fault. Walt Miller also has a dream and she supported his dream as Chairman of the Seal Beach Improvement 22 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Committee for four years. When the City got the money, that voted-on project was to go forward but it never happened. Mr. Miller doesn't want Mr. Musso to have this project because it would hurt his business. 75% of Seal Beach Boulevard lots are residential uses. She urged the Commission to approve this project and breathe new life into Seal Beach Boulevard. . Les Metterfield * Sacramento Mr. Metterfield introduced himself as a Musso family member by marriage. He lives in Sacramento. He responded to some of Mr. Miller's comments by asking if the City Council directed the Planning Commission to look at this as a site- specific property? Also, Greg Miller brought up the issue of sales tax. While it should not be an issue, the Shore Shop has a totally different operation than a bicycle shop, as it's more intensive in the areas of management, employment and inventory. The sales tax issue is not going to be an issue at this site because the Shore Shop will not be able to continue doing business in this location and needs to relocate. Regarding traffic, they would not come up with facetious traffic figures/counts, those come from studies. Regarding businesses assisting each other, Seal Beach Boulevard has one side of the street that must remain empty because of the Navy. The family looked into what would be best for this site. He noted Dick Mitchell had trouble getting tenants into his new, nearby buildings. If Mr. Mitchell had been quickly successful, they would have given more consideration to commercial operations around the corner. If the Mitchell property is still not leased out in two years, and the Musso property is a much inferior property, then commercial is not the way to go. They feel strongly that this will be an excellent entrance to Seal Beach. He urged approval. . Joan Kim * Economic Research Associates Ms. Kim said Economic Research Associates is a real estate consulting firm. They were engaged to evaluate the potential effects of the coastal areas ability to serve the commercial facility needs of its visitors that would result in a zoning change of the subject site from a commercial use to a residential use. Their research involved a review of the site; it's attributed and adjacent areas and uses. The reviewed existing visitor-serving commercial areas in Seal Beach and surrounding areas, including a survey of major retail centers in the area, including sites for future visitor-serving developments. They also reviewed retail sales in Seal Beach and Orange County. Based on their research they found the Seal Beach site is poor as a commercial location from a market perspective. Seal Beach Boulevard west of Pacific Coast Highway functions as a residential collector, rather than a commercial corridor. This site has extremely low traffic counts that are only 1/5th standard levels. There is no anchor tenant nearby. There is no concentration of retail uses and low pedestrian traffic. Visibility of the site is poor and the site does not satisfy the criteria for neighborhood centers or convenience-related commercial uses. Population densities are particularly low, at about 3,200 residents per square mile compared to the desired levels of 4,000 to 6,000 residents per square mile. The site is removed from established visitor- serving commercial and resident serving corridors. There are two major 23 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . concentrations: Main Street and Pacific Coast Highway. Main Street is the primary visitor-serving commercial district. Pacific Coast Highway is the main arterial through the coastal area and serves both visitors and residents. Review of retail sales data indicates that Seal Beach is not presently under-served with respect to visitor-related facilities. Existing visitor-serving retail establishments in Seal Beach perform approximately 30% below the County average in terms of sales per outlet. And Seal Beach also performs below County averages in terms of sales per capita. These factors indicate that the retail stock is more than adequate to satisfy the area's potential near-term and future requirements. Finally, three vacant properties have been designated for hotel, restaurant, retail and related visitor-serving uses. These are the DWP property, the State Lands parcel and the Hellman property. These sites are better suited for visitor-serving uses than the subject property in terms of their location attributes. Considering these factors and specifically noting that the site does not satisfy basic retail selection criteria, this site is removed from the major concentrations of visitor- oriented businesses which are in close proximity to the beach. There are properties better suites for future development. They concluded that the change from General Commercial to residential would not negatively impact the coastal districts ability to provide for its visitors. Lehua Gonzalez * 1639 Ocean Avenue, Seal Beach Ms. Gonzalez was concerned about high-density commercial projects. She was most concerned in having this site developed as high density commercial and therefore supported this residential project. She felt it would improve the area. Vaness JOY * 321 1 ih Street. Seal Beach Ms. Joy spoke in favor of this project, saying the Musso's have complied with all the Commission's concerns. Seal Beach Boulevard is not a commercial area. She is a mortgage broker and agrees that it would be very difficult to get commercial loans or mixed use loans. It is unlikely that more commercial would go there. Seal Beach Boulevard is just as much an entry to Seal Beach as 1 ih Street is. The City spent a lot of money on 1 ih Street. Her hope is that with the Commission's approval of this development it would be a catalyst for improvement of Seal Beach Boulevard. She felt it looks trashy now, nothing has been done, the Navy's property is dirt and leaves, there are abandoned cars on the other side. She said the Commission holds a fiduciary responsibility to the constituents to approve this project. Jim Jessup * 250 1 ih Street. Seal Beach Mr. Jessup said Seal Beach Boulevard is a street in limbo --- it's commercial and it's residential. Serious commercial development seems like a long shot, without the City itself getting seriously involved. It hasn't happened in 15 years. He didn't see it happening anytime soon. This project is a great way to initiate . appropriate change and positive change for Seal Beach Boulevard. . 24 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Rebuttal: Dave Bartlett Mr. Bartlett said that as part of the Notice process, as directed by the City Council, the area was expanded, everybody was notified so they would have the opportunity to comment. Also, Seal Beach Boulevard is predominantly a residential street, notwithstanding zoning. There are 10 businesses on Seal Beach Boulevard and there are 46 residential units on Seal Beach Boulevard. The traffic counts are not there to support commercial development and the surrounding land use is not appropriate. Regarding the issue of spot zoning, the City Attorney could address this best. Regarding the businesses south of Landing Avenue not being able to function properly if this project is built, they don't feel that's the case. These are service businesses. There's a travel agency, an accountant, a pre-school. People know these businesses exist. Commissioner Cutuli asked what the date of the traffic studies was? Mr. Bartlett said the City Engineer gave the traffic counts to him and he assumed they were up to date. They reflected 5700 ADTs on 1 ih Street between Pacific Coast Highway and Electric and 5900 ADTs on Seal Beach Boulevard between Pacific Coast Highway and Electric. . The Chair closed the Public Hearing. Commission Deliberation Commissioner Cutuli said Mr. Bartlett quoted from the City's General Plan and asked if there were anything else that would change what Mr. Bartlett said? Mr. Whittenberg said there are two different land use designations along Seal Beach Boulevard for commercial uses. For Pacific Coast Highway to Landing Avenue the General Plan designation is General Commercial, the most intense commercial use allowed. For Landing Avenue to Electric Avenue is L-C, limited commercial. That's the language he was referring to. It was created by the City in 1991 based on concerns from many people hear this evening, that C-2 zoning didn't allow potential for expansion of retail uses in that area because of parking requirements. The City, in working with the neighborhood, came up with a blended concept --- some small, professional retail office uses with the potential to put residences above. There are two different land use designations in that area. Land Use designations are not etched in concrete. Mr. Steele clarified that he did advise the Commission that all their actions tonight would be final but he wanted to add that the Commission is acting in an advisory capacity on this issue and the City Council has the final decision on a zone change. . Chairman Brown asked Commissioner Hood if he was prepared to vote on this tonight as he had said he didn't have time to adequately prepare for this meeting? 25 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Commissioner Hood said he was willing to go along with what the other Commissioners want. . Chairman Brown noted this project is in his Councilmanic district. He indicated one of the speakers said the Commission has a fiduciary responsibility to the City and to the residents and he agreed. It is his hope that people feel the Commission votes what it feels is in the best interest of the people. This is a better residential project than the previous project but that doesn't mean it's a good residential project. He likes the fact they eliminated the Variances and setbacks. "It would still be my strong preference to see 3D' wide lots in this area". This is a keystone property for Seal Beach Boulevard and it determines the nature of the street. The developer might like us to believe that we can change just this one section and the rest of Seal Beach Boulevard would not change. But, as was said at the prior hearing, it would change the nature of Seal Beach Boulevard. It changes the entrance as you drive up --- it looks like a residential street. "I fully believe, and I think Mr. Bartlett in one of his more honest moments will agree, that what this will do is domino Seal Beach Boulevard into residential". It's universally agreed that something needs to be done with Seal Beach Boulevard, as it's an eyesore. He thought there is movement in the City towards doing that. Sometimes it takes a project to get the ball rolling or somebody with vision. "But I don't feel that we should be in such a rush to change the nature of the street. There's very limited commercial sites in Seal Beach and this is one of the commercial boulevards, like it or not." The Musso's do have property rights, they have a commercially zoned property and they can do with it what they please. But when they want to change it that's when the Planning Commission comes into play. He found it impossible to look at this property as an isolated unit. It must be looked at in terms of Seal Beach Boulevard from Electric Avenue to Pacific Coast Highway. "I am stili going to vote against it because I'm not convinced that it's the right thing to do for the Boulevard." He talked about Walt Miller's vision for that section of Seal Beach Boulevard and said he was not sure the City has made a good effort to do anything towards that. The impetus must come from the City; the City has to change the street for that vision to become effective for it to become a viable commercial area. "I am not willing to throw in the towel on the commercial. I think we've just seen the City Council vote last night to put a commercial development in an area where people are violently against it. I think it was... who said that... I pay the bills for the City and we need to have revenue ... Councilman Yost. I thought that was a great comment. Perhaps a brave one politically. But, you have to recognize that the City does need revenue. It does need commercial area. You cannot live on residential properties. They are a net loser for the City. If it is the will of the Commission, and I am only one vote, to have the residential then I'd still like to see 30' wide properties. And let me address that. This is a key area. It's first impressions. People are coming into Seal Beach. This IS the first impression that they are going to see. If you will drive down 2nd Street, 3rd Street or 4th Street where most people would agree, those are the best looking streets in Seal Beach. As you 26 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . drive down them, one of the reasons... is they're 30', 35' wide lots. If you go to come of the other streets, that time I said this I got into trouble so I'm not going to name these streets, but where you have nominally 25' wide lots, the narrower lots, it just doesn't look as good. And I think if you want to change this street into a residential street then we ought to make a premiere residential street -- at least looking. Or at least, not look any worse than any other.... ". He thought the first residential concept wasn't good and this is much, much better. "I'm not in a big rush to approve its conversion into primarily residential". He received a phone message that said the Musso family was a very nice family and we ought to do them a special favor. He agreed they are a very nice family but indicated. the Commission doesn't do special favors here, everyone is treated fairly. . Commissioner Larson said the homeowner's say the City Council and Planning Commission defer to the commercial properties because it's income. The commercial users say they defer to the residences against the commercial uses. The fact is, we try to figure out what's best for the City. He tries to look at Seal Beach Boulevard objectively and added, "I know that's impossible". Some people see a commercial street with houses in there. "I see a residential street with a few commercial uses". At first blush, driving around Seal Beach Boulevard it said to him that it was a residentially zoned area that allowed home occupations. There were houses that were allowed to use them for commercial purposes. He agreed that his project would not "make or break the City" but noted that after 14 years he would have to believe nothing is going to be done that would enhance that area to a full commercial use. He thought it would look pretty, nice and inviting to come north on Pacific Coast Highway and see a residential area that leads into a mixed-use home occupation-type area. The City isn't all residential, and it isn't all commercial. It's a lovely city with lovely mixed uses. "I think this will enhance the City". Referencing the Chairman's comments he said, "I realize ... that you have a feeling, honestly held, that that is a strong commercial area of the City. To me, Main Street is the highlight of Seal Beach ... I think we should vote to recommend to the City Council to consider this zone change and General Plan change and let them determine if they want to go further with a ... study of Seal Beach Boulevard. I think houses won't change what the street looks like...". He planned to vote yes. Commissioner Lyon had no comments. Commissioner Hood said that because this proposal is in the Chairman's district "I'm certainly not going to be so arrogant as to try to ... second guess you". Chairman Brown said, "Please, you represent both your district and the City. appreciate the flattery but... vote your conscience". . Commissioner Cutuli said he had been giving this project a lot of thought. He felt badly for the businesses there, if they would be downgraded because of housing 27 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Instead of commercial but it seems to him that if he had that business, and it was failing, he would want to do something that was good and viable. This seems like a good plan but he would like to see the 3D' wide lots. He noted some of the eight lots are 3D' wide. The businesses that are there existed before the 1992 decision when they were going to try to change it into a more commercial area. If they haven't done it in this time, six years, it probably won't happen.. He would vote to approve. MOTION by Brown; SECOND by _ to deny General Plan Amendment 98-2 and Zone Change 98-2 at 321 Seal Beach Boulevard. MOTION FAILED for lack of a Second. *** MOTION by Larson; SECOND by Cutuli to approve General Plan Amendment 98-2 and Zone Change 98-2 for 321 Seal Beach Boulevard. Before the vote, Chairman Brown said he was going to request that the maker of the Motion make the recommendation that they have 3D' wide lots. He asked Commissioner Larson if he would do that? . Commissioner Larson asked if the Chairman was now saying that it would not be a condition of the Commission's recommendation of approval? It would be saying that the Planning Commission recommends this project and suggests the City Council would consider 3D' wide lots as the minimum width? Chairman Brown said he was saying that the Commission recommends approval and recommends 30' wide lots. The City Council is free to do with it was they wish. That underlines the point. Commissioner Larson said, "As I see it though, the Commission should vote for the project as it is. And I don't want it interpreted that we didn't vote for it as it is but would have voted for it if the lots were 3D'''. Commissioner Hood said there is only so much space and if you have 8 lots then you have to have 240' and they don't have 240'. Chairman Brown said "That's right, that means 7 lots". Commissioner Hood said, "If you have to cut down the lot size, you have to cut down the number of lots. You're proposing changing their whole project". . Chairman Brown said "That's right. I'm trying to get the best residential project for the City. That's what we do. We very rarely take the first thing that a developer comes in ... again it's your Motion". 28 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Commissioner Larson said he didn't want to get in the Chairman's thoughts [Could not hear this comment] as long as the Commission moves to recommend this project to the City Council with a further recommendation that the City Council consider and evaluate the possibility to change to 30' wide lots. That way there would be a recommendation for a zone change plus a General Plan change from the Commission and a further recommendation the Council consider 30' wide lots. Chairman Brown said, "Okay. So that's your motion". Mr. Steele advised the Commission needed to be sure the Second agreed to the amendment and explained the resolutions are as follows: o 98-39: o 98-40: o 98-41: Negative Declaration General Plan Amendment Zone Change . MOTION AMENDED by Larson; SECOND by Cutuli that the Planning Commission recommends to the City Council approval of Negative Declaration 98---, General Plan Amendment 98-2 and Zone Change 98-2 for 321 Seal Beach Boulevard, through the adoption of Resolutions Numbered 98-39, 98-40 and 98- 41. Further, adding a sentence at the end of Section 6 to Resolution No. 98-41 that the Commission recommends that the City Council consider minimum 30' wide lot widths. (Page 16 of the resolution). MOTION CARRIED: AYES: NOES: 4-1 Larson, Cutuli, Lyon, Hood Brown Mr. Whittenberg advised everyone that this matter would now go on to the City Council for their consideration at another set of Public Hearings. STAFF CONCERNS Mr. Whittenberg talked about the Bixby Old Ranch Towne project and summarized the City Council's changes to it. He provided the Commission a written summary. COMMISSION CONCERNS . Communication with Applicants Commissioner Cutuli suggested staff institute procedures for better communication with applicants and more complete record keeping. He noted there have been conflicting stories between various applicants and staff. At his office they write things down on the patient's chart. This would be good for the 29 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Planning Department to do, as it would give a running idea of what was going on at that time. Mr. Whittenberg said it would be possible but sometimes issues go on for a number of years. Not only City issues are involved, sometimes the California Coastal Commission is involved etc. Some of the municipal Code enforcement cases mentioned have been taken out of the Planning Department's hands and put into somebody else's hands. This is an on-going issue and can't be changed. When staff prepares the Agenda Forecast, staff is listing things that we need we need to get to eventually. It doesn't mean we've forgotten about them. It means we need to get to them as our time allows. These items don't have deadlines. Chairman Brown rephrased Commissioner Cutuli's request. For example, somebody comes to the City and says I'd like to build within my setback is that okay? Staff says no. Then that person comes to the Planning Commission and says he said it was okay. . Mr. Steele said staff tries to confirm the major things in writing as much as it can. One of the issues that has come up over the last few months is that staffing has been bad in the Planning Department and they probably have not been able to confirm as much in writing as they used to. Commissioner Cutuli said he would appreciate staff improving communication with the applicants. Oral Communications at End of Aqenda Commissioner Larson asked if it would be better to have public comments at the end of the Agenda. It seemed to him that persons with actual applications should go first. During public comments the Commission gets harangued by people about not doing our job because we don't know how to do it or they talk about some other zoning matter, some other matter, some other election. "If they want and berate us, fine, go ahead and do it. But I think they could go to the end of the meeting rather than have these people wait for an hour before we get around to actually going over our Agenda". Commissioner Lyon recommended public comments be limited to a certain amount of time so discussions don't drag on and the same comments don't get repeated and repeated. . Chairman Brown said former Planning Commission Dahlman used to say that this is Seal Beach and people should be allowed to speak and to air out their concerns. He said he tries to watch that people are not too redundant. It's a good point but "I think that we're better served by letting people speak than by saying okay you've got five minutes. 30 City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18, 1998 . Commissioner Lyon commented on one individual who spoke at great length about Seal Beach Boulevard. Chairman Brown defended the individual and said he was talking about his business, his livelihood. Commissioner Larson said people should talk but wanted those comments at the end of the meeting. He also suggested some control be put on the microphone so when people with loud voices start screaming into it it can be turned down. Mr. Whittenberg said the microphones are set at certain levels for the meetings. Mr. Steele said a few years ago the Planning Commission restructured its Agenda. That was done in response to changes in the Brown Act, which requires the public an opportunity to speak on every item on the Agenda. We put public comments at the beginning of the Agenda to encourage people to speak on all non-Public Hearing items. In some cities they have public comments at the beginning for Agenda items and public comment at the end for oral communications. There's no magic formula to it. . Balconv on Main Street Chairman Brown talked about the four-story structure on Main Street. The upper deck is overhanging the sidewalk. Is this allowed? Mr. Whittenberg said they are allowed to do that if they get approval from the City's Engineering Department. They submitted a request and it was not in accordance with the plans. They are re-submitting. Whether or not he approves it is another matter. It can overhang the sidewalk as much as the City Engineer feels is appropriate. The Code addresses overhangs up to 8' ~bove the sidewalk. Once you're more than 8' above the sidewalk the building code allows you to hang out to 5' maximum. Commission Calendar Commissioner Hood asked to review the Commission's calendar. Mr. Whittenberg said there would be items for the December 9th meeting. There will most likely not be a meeting on December 23rd. Commissioner Hood said he would be in cruising on the Nile December 23rd He will be in Olympic on January 6th. He will return to Seal Beach on January 20th. . 31 \. . . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission * Minutes of November 18. 1998 Beach Bliqht Chairman Brown asked about trash and trash cans as they blight the beach. They have giant Los Angeles Times banners on them. Mr. Whittenberg said those were approved by the City Council. ADJOURNMENT Chairman Brown adjourned the meeting at 12:05 a.m. Respectfully Submitted, ~~~ Joan Fillmann Executive Secretary Planning Department APPROVAL The Planning Commission m~ing Minutes of November 18. 1998 were approved on ~ <::t-;- 1998. * 32