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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Min 2005-02-23 . . . CITY OF SEAL BEACH PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA for February 23, 2005 7:30 p.m. District 1 - Ellery Deaton District 2 - Jim Sharp District 3 - Gordon Shanks District 4 - Gary Roberts District 5 - Phil Ladner Department of Development Services Lee Whittenberg, Director Alexander Abbe, Assistant City Attorney Christy Teague, AICP, Senior Planner Carmen Alvarez, Executive Secretary o City Hall office hours are 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday through Thursday and Friday 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Closed noon to 1 :00 p.m. o The City of Seal Beach complies with the Americans with Disabilities Act. If you need assistance to attend this meeting please telephone the City Clerk's Office at least 48 hours in advance of the meeting at (562) 431-2527. o Planning Commission meetings are broadcast live on Seal Beach TV3. They are rebroadcast on Sunday afternoons, Channel 3 at 4:00 p.m. o Videotapes of Planning Commission meetings may be purchased from Seal Beach TV3 at a cost of $20 per tape. Telephone: (562) 596-1404. o Copies of staff reports and/or written materials on each agenda item are on file in the Department of Development Services and City libraries for public inspection. Page 1 of 5 . . . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission. Agenda of February 23, 2005 PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA INFORMATION SHEET The following is a brief explanation of the Planning Commission agenda structure: AGENDA APPROVAL: The Planning Commission may wish to change the order of the items on the agenda. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS: Anyone wishing to address the Planning Commission, only on items not on tonight's agenda, may do so during this time period. No action can be taken by the Planning Commission on these communications on this date, unless agendized. PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS: Public Hearings allow citizens the opportunity to speak in favor of or against agendized items. More detailed information is found in the actual agenda attached. If you have documents to distribute, you should have enough copies for all Planning Commissioners, City staff and the public. Please give one to the secretary for the City files. The documents become part of the public record and will not be returned. CONSENT CALENDAR: Consent Calendar items are considered routine items that normally do not require separate consideration. The Planning Commission may make one motion for approval of all the items listed on the Consent Calendar. SCHEDULED MATTERS: These items are considered by the Planning Commission separately and require separate motions. These transactions are considered administrative and public testimony is not heard. STAFF CONCERNS: Updates and reports from the Director of Development Services (Planning and Building Departments) are presented for information to the Planning Commission and the public. COMMISSION CONCERNS: Items of concern are presented by the Planning Commissioners and discussed with staff. All proceedinas are recorded. Page 2 of 5 . . . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Agenda for February 23, 2005 7:30 p.m. I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE II. ROLL CALL III. AGENDA APPROVAL By Motion of the Planning Commission, this is the time to: (a) Notify the public of any changes to the Agenda; (b) Re-arrange the order of the Agenda; and/or (c) Provide an opportunity for any member of the Planning Commission, staff, or public to request an item be removed from the Consent Calendar for separate action. IV. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS At this time, members of the public may address the Planning Commission regarding any items within the subject matter jurisdiction of the Planning Commission, provided that the Planning Commission may undertake no action or discussion unless otherwise authorized by law. V. CONSENT CALENDAR Items on the Consent Calendar are considered to be routine and are enacted by one motion unless prior to enactment, a member of the Planning Commission, staff, or the public requests a specific item be removed from the Consent Calendar for separate action. 1. Approve Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 9, 2005. VI. SCHEDULED MATTERS 2. January 2005 Building and Safety Department Statistical Report. VII. PUBLIC HEARINGS 3. Conditional Use Permit 00-11 (Indefinite Extension) 137 Main Street (Old Town Cafe) Continued from February 9, 2005 Applicant/Owner: Angel Lopez/Robert O'Rear Page 3 of 5 . . . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission. Agenda of February 23, 2005 Request: To approve an Indefinite Extension of Conditional Use Permit 00-11for an existing restaurant, permitting the ability to serve beer and wine for on-sale consumption. Recommendation: Continue to meeting of March 9, 2005. 4. Conditional Use Permit 05-2 3900 Lampson Avenue (Seal Beach Tennis Center) Applicant/Owner: Request: Eric Stephens/City of Seal Beach To approve a permit to sell beer and wine for on-site consumption within an enclosed clubhouse located at the rear of the tennis center. The sale of beer and wine is proposed to be similar as the previously approved Old Ranch Tennis Club. With the new ownership, a new application is necessary from California Alcohol & Beverage Control. Recommendation: Continue to meeting of March 9, 2005. VIII. STUDY SESSION 5. Main Street Specific Plan Sign Standards IX. STAFF CONCERNS X. COMMISSION CONCERNS XI. ADJOURNMENT Page 4 of 5 . Mar9 Mar 23 Apr6 Apr20 May4 May 18 Jun 8 Jun 22 . July6 July 20 Aug3 Aug 17 Sep 7 Sep 21 Oct 5 Oct 19 Nov9 Nov 23 Dee 7 Dee 21 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission' Agenda of February 23, 2005 2005 AQenda Forecast CUP 00-11 (Indefinite Extension) - Old Town Cafe CUP 02-5 (Revocation) - Togo's/Baskin Robbins CUP 02-6 (Indefinite Extension) - Quizno's CUP 05-1 - 10 Marina Drive (JD's Restaurant) CUP 05-2 - Old Ranch Tennis Club VAR 05-2 - B2 Surfside Page 5 of 5 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 * 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . CITY OF SEAL BEACH PLANNING COMMISSION Minutes of February 23,2005 Chairperson Ladner called the regularly scheduled meeting of the Planning Commission to order at 7:30 p.m. on Wednesday, February 23, 2005. The meeting was held in the City Council Chambers and began with the Salute to the Flag.1 ROLL CALL Present: Chairperson Ladner, Commissioners Deaton, Roberts, Shanks, and Sharp. Also Present: Department of Development Services Lee Whittenberg, Director of Development Services Christy Teague, AICP, Senior Planner Alexander Abbe, Assistant City Attorney Absent: None. AGENDA APPROVAL Commissioner Deaton asked that Item No.1, the Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 9,2005, be removed, as she would abstain from voting on this item since she was absent on that meeting date. MOTION by Shanks; SECOND by Sharp to approve the Agenda as amended. MOTION CARRIED: AYES: NOES: ABSENT: 5-0 Ladner, Deaton, Roberts, Shanks, and Sharp None None ORAL COMMUNICATIONS Chairperson Ladner opened oral communications. There being no one wishing to speak, Chairperson Ladner closed oral communications. 1 These Minutes were transcribed from audiotape of the meeting. Page 1 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 . 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 CONSENT CALENDAR None. 1. Approve Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 9,2005. Mr. Whittenberg noted that the vote as it appears at the bottom of Page 11 of the minutes is incorrect and should reflect a vote of 3 - 1 - 1. Commissioner Shanks interjected that the vote as listed on Pages 11 and 12 should reflect that he had voted in favor of Item Nos. 6 and 7. He noted that he had only voted against Item No.5, the Indefinite Extension of Conditional Use Permit 01-14 for Daphne's Greek Cafe. MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Shanks to approve the Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 9,2005 as amended. MOTION CARRIED: AYES: NOES: ABSENT: ABSTAIN: 4-0-1 Ladner, Roberts, Shanks, and Sharp None None Deaton SCHEDULED MATTERS 2. January 2005 Building and Safety Department Statistical Report. Ms. Teague stated that at the January 19, 2005, Planning Commission meeting the Commissioners had reviewed the monthly report for December 2004 and had requested that this report appear as a regular agenda item. She recommended that for future meetings this report be placed on the Consent Calendar. MOTION by Deaton; SECOND by Roberts to Receive and File January 2005 Building and Safety Department Statistical Report and that future reports appear on the Consent Calendar. MOTION CARRIED: AYES: NOES: ABSENT: 5-0 Ladner, Deaton, Roberts, Shanks, and Sharp None None PUBLIC HEARINGS 3. Conditional Use Permit 00-11 (Indefinite Extension) 137 Main Street (Old Town Cafe) Page 2 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 I 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 Continued from February 9, 2005 ApplicanUOwner: Request: Angel Lopez/Robert O'Rear To approve an Indefinite Extension of Conditional Use Permit 00-11 for an existing restaurant, permitting the ability to serve beer and wine for on-sale consumption. Recommendation: Continue to meeting of March 9, 2005. Staff Report Ms. Teague reported that the public notices for this item and for Item No.4, Conditional Use Permit 05-2, were properly mailed, but notice was not published in the Sun Newspaper within the 10-day requirement; therefore, Staff is requesting that these two items be continued to the March 9, 2005 Planning Commission meeting. MOTION by Roberts; SECOND by Shanks to continue this item to Planning Commission meeting of March 9, 2005. MOTION CARRIED: AYES: NOES: ABSENT: 5-0 Ladner, Deaton, Roberts, Shanks, and Sharp None None 4. Conditional Use Permit 05-2 3900 Lampson Avenue (Seal Beach Tennis Center) ApplicanUOwner: Request: Eric Stephens/City of Seal Beach To approve a permit to sell beer and wine for on-site consumption within an enclosed clubhouse located at the rear of the tennis center. The sale of beer and wine is proposed to be similar as the previously approved Old Ranch Tennis Club. With the new ownership, a new application is necessary from California Alcohol & Beverage Control. Recommendation: Continue to meeting of March 9, 2005. MOTION by Roberts; SECOND by Shanks to continue this item to Planning Commission meeting of March 9, 2005. MOTION CARRIED: AYES: NOES: ABSENT: 5-0 Ladner, Deaton, Roberts, Shanks, and Sharp None None Page 3 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 . 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 STUDY SESSION 5. Main Street Specific Plan Sign Standards Staff Report Mr. Whittenberg delivered the staff report. (Staff Report is on file for inspection in the Planning Department.) He provided some background information on this item and stated that the Staff Reports on this issue have attempted to address a number of areas that the Planning Commission (PC) had requested Staff investigate, on ways to deal with the issue of signage along the Main Street area. He indicated that he would like to walk through each of these areas of concern so that Staff might receive clear direction on the proposed changes the PC would like to see included in the ordinance language. Mr. Whittenberg began with the development of standards for freestanding signs for business not built up to the sidewalk. He referred to the proposed basic design standards for monument and courtyard signs on Pages 3 and 4 of the Staff Report. He explained that a monument sign would be ground-mounted and is usually no more than 4-6 feet high with no exposed pole supporting the sign. A courtyard sign would be a pole-mounted sign located either on the public sidewalk area or within a courtyard of a multiple-tenant building that is adjacent to Main Street. He noted that a courtyard sign provides signage for business complexes or a business that is set back off the street. He indicated that currently City Code does not address these types of signs, and Staff feels that these proposed standards would be fairly compatible with the current signage along Main Street. He then proceeded to review the criteria for monument and courtyard signs. With regard to monument signs, Commissioner Deaton inquired about the sign for Baytown Realty, located at 321 Main Street, and noted that if the sign were located behind the sidewalk, it would not be located on public property. Mr. Whittenberg reported that for this property and for some other properties along Main Street, the sidewalk does not end at the property line. He stated that in most cases the sidewalk does go right to the property line, but for the Baytown building and the building north of it, the sidewalk does not end at the property line. He noted that the buildings on both of these lots are set back quite a ways from the street, while most of the other buildings along Main Street are built right up to the front property line. He stated that for the Baytown lot, the actual property line sits 6-8 inches behind the sidewalk. Commissioner Deaton confirmed that for the Baytown lot, the sign would have to be 9 feet back from the sidewalk. Mr. Whittenberg stated that the sign must be set back 3 feet from the front property line. He noted that the measurement from the curb to the property line is usually 10 feet, and this would include all of the public sidewalk area. Commissioner Deaton asked the Director of Development Services what his estimate would be for the relocation of the sign in order to comply with these standards. Mr. Whittenberg estimated that the Baytown building is set back approximately 45 feet from the street with parking spaces in front of the building. He explained that Baytown might have to re-stripe the parking lot to put in a compact parking space in order to accommodate the Page 4 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 . 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 monument sign in front of one parking space, as when the sign is re-Iocated it would probably encroach into the parking space. Commissioner Deaton asked how far back from the sidewalk the sign would be when relocated. Mr. Whittenberg stated it would probably be 3.5 feet back from the sidewalk. He also noted that Staff has taken the measurements of the monument sign, and it is higher than the 5-foot high standard proposed for monument signs, but it should not be a concern of the PC, as the Commission should consider what a reasonable sized sign would be for pre-existing signs and for any future requests for monument signs on properties that are set back a substantial distance from the sidewalk area. Commissioner Deaton asked how large the Baytown sign is. Mr. Whittenberg stated that it is 6 feet high from the ground to the top of the sign, and the sign itself measures 48 inches by 66 inches. He indicated that the PC would make a final determination on whether a sign of this height would be permissible if moved back 3 feet from the property line, or whether another maximum height would be more appropriate, and whether Baytown should comply with this standard. Commissioner Roberts asked if the PC should be discussing standards for information that is placed on a sign, or whether there are other sections of the City Code that address this. He noted that a 40 square foot sign could contain a lot of information that might create "clutter." Mr. Whittenberg indicated that the PC could require that monument sign be approved under the Minor Plan Review (MPR) process. He cautioned that there are many legal issues involved related to trying to restrict sign content. Mr. Abbe added that generally, you can make distinctions between commercial speech and non-commercial speech, but beyond this it is very difficult to impose any type of content restrictions, which are almost universally struck down by the court. He explained that if a Code Enforcement Officer would have to look at and read a sign to determine whether or not it complies with the ordinance, except to determine whether it is commercial or non-commercial, would be a content-based restriction and would be struck down. Commissioner Roberts asked if regulating the size of lettering could mitigate this. Mr. Abbe stated that restrictions on the size of the sign and the letters could be imposed. Commissioner Deaton asked if telephone numbers must be allowed on signs. She indicated that when sitting on a former Planning Commission in another city, telephone numbers were not allowed because it was a safety hazard. Mr. Abbe stated that he would have to research this, but, if challenged, virtually all sign ordinances in the state of California would be found to be unconstitutional. Mr. Whittenberg referred to Page 9 of the Staff Report and explained that this begins a listing of how other cities within California have handled sign issues. Commissioner Deaton stated that under the proposed standards. for monument signs there is no minimum frontage listed. Mr. Whittenberg stated that including a minimum standard should be discussed further and included as one of the sign standards. Commissioner Deaton asked if Staff had any idea of the number of businesses having monument signs. She noted that these would have to be businesses that are set back from the street 15 feet or more, but most of the businesses along Main Street are adjacent to the sidewalk. Mr. Whittenberg stated that the only ones he can think of are Baytown Realty and the attorney's office to the north of Baytown, with any others being located in a courtyard setting. Commissioner Deaton pointed out that for multi-tenant buildings, she Page 5 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 . 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 could foresee the need for partitioning signs to allow a sign for each of the tenants. She asked if there were a way of restricting the signage to one tenant only. Mr. Whittenberg stated that this would be difficult to do with multiple-tenant buildings. He explained that generally the property would be allowed so many square feet of sign space and the owner would have to determine how the signage is to be divided and designated. He emphasized that this is why Staff recommends the MPR process, as this would allow the PC to see the signs and approve them before they are put in place. Commissioner Deaton expressed her concern with safety issues with drivers attempting to read or copy telephone numbers from signs while driving and having difficulty locating a business if lettering is too small or if signs are too cluttered with information. Mr. Whittenberg commented that in most cases people already know where the businesses are located. Commissioner Deaton countered that out of town visitors would not have the same familiarity with the town, and having clear, non-cluttered signs would make it easier to locate a specific business. The Commission was in agreement with Staff that the MPR process would provide the means for reviewing proposed signs for Main Street businesses. Commissioner Deaton stated that she concurred with Commissioner Roberts's suggestions for looking at the proportion of sign lettering, to ensure that signs are easily visible and to prevent clutter. Chairperson Ladner suggested that a sans serif type font for lettering might better lend itself to ease of reading. Mr. Whittenberg stated that Staff could provide information on methods for providing clarity in the style and type of text. Commissioner Deaton stated that she would like this concept carried into the all of the other signage concepts under review. Mr. Whittenberg then proceeded to the discussion on courtyard signs by stating that these signs are used for businesses that do not front Main Street, but have an interior courtyard within the building development. He cited the property across the street from Baytown Realty as an example of this type of design, and noted that this property has a pole-mounted sign that identifies the tenants. He stated that there is another location on Main Street with the businesses located along an alley-like pedestrian walkway with a sign that was permitted many years ago, but that today is not legally permitted under the current Main Street sign standards. He indicated that this sign is legal nonconforming and can remain since it was legal when originally constructed under the pre-existing sign standards. He noted that this sign is 86 inches tall with the sign area measuring 1.5 - 2 feet. He stated that Staff is recommending that the Code be amended to allow this type of sign in situations where business tenants do not have sign visibility to Main Street. The Director of Development Services then referred to Page 3-4 of the Staff Report and reviewed the standards for courtyard signs. He indicated that if the Commission is in general agreement with the basic standard as presented, Staff would proceed with the formal text language to return to the PC for review at a future public hearing. Commissioner Deaton asked if businesses with pole signs could use planter boxes to meet the landscape requirement. Mr. Whittenberg explained that using planter boxes could lead to the problem of the boxes being taken and also present problems with water drainage from the planter boxes onto the city sidewalks. He suggested that the landscaped area not be required around small pole signs. Page 6 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 . 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 Commissioner Shanks asked about the A-Frame signs that are placed on the sidewalk. Mr. Whittenberg stated that the sign standards do not permit these signs on public property. Commissioner Shanks asked if there were any intention of doing anything about this. Mr. Whittenberg said that there is no intention of allowing A-frame signs on public property. Commissioner Shanks asked if they could be disallowed on cut ins on the business property. Mr. Whittenberg stated that the PC could decide to prohibit them. Commissioner Deaton stated that although many of these signs are initially placed on private property, they eventually make their way out to the public sidewalk. Mr. Whittenberg stated that many cities prohibit these signs outright, and others will allow them on a temporary basis, while others allow these signs for menu boards for daily specials for restaurants, but will usually designate a specific design for the boards. He noted that this could lead to conflict with other business owners who may feel that they should be allowed the same privilege. Commissioner Deaton stated that she believes these signs can contribute to the Old Town feel, but they can be a safety hazard when placed in the public right-of-way. She commented that some of these signs could be really "crummy looking." Chairperson Ladner asked how many of these signs are currently out on Main Street. Mr. Whittenberg stated that there are a few of these signs on Main Street; some very nicely painted and others that are simply hand scrawled writing on paper pasted to a piece of plywood and are not very attractive. Chairperson Ladner noted that if there are so few, why not prohibit them altogether. Mr. Whittenberg stated that this is essentially what the Code states; however, the signs are still permissible on private property. Commissioner Roberts suggested that Staff investigate to see how other cities have handled this issue. Commissioner Shanks referred to the issue of lighting and asked what the difference was between luminance and intensity. Mr. Whittenberg stated that he had attempted to get a clear response to this from a number of sign company professionals and none could provide a good answer. He said that he was not successful in attempting to schedule representatives from a sign company to present samples of illuminated signs t.o the PC. He then referred to Page 4 of the Staff Report to the Maximum Night-Time Intensity and Illuminance tables acquired from the City of Huntington Beach and indicated that Staff is not able to adequately demonstrate how bright lumens or foot candles would be at the designated levels of intensity of illuminance shown on the tables. Commissioner Roberts asked whether the City has an intensity meter. Mr. Whittenberg stated that it does not. Mr. Whittenberg suggested that further discussion on the issue of lighting be delayed until he can have a lighting professional present to provide this information and respond to questions from the Commission. Commissioner Roberts stated that he is concerned with the number of illuminated signs at one property. He noted that having more than one light source of the same intensity level creates twice the amount of light. Mr. Whittenberg pointed out that businesses on Main Street are very narrow (25 feet wide) and the signs for them are very close together, making this a very difficult issue to address. Commissioner Roberts asked if the PC should be concerned with a continuous light source sign or would it be all right to have blinking lights. Mr. Whittenberg stated that the City ordinance prohibits flashing or blinking signs. Commissioner Deaton asked about signs that change color. Mr. Whittenberg said that this would be considered to be flashing or blinking. He noted that Page 7 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 . 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 Main Street is a pedestrian-oriented area; so lighted signs should be continuously lit. Commissioner Roberts stated that he would be uncomfortable in making any recommendations without a demonstration of what the light intensity values are. Commissioner Deaton asked how wide the Main Street Square businesses are. Mr. Whittenberg said that the businesses along Main Street are approximately 20-25 feet wide, and the ones along Central Avenue are 25-30 feet wide, but their sign area is based upon the width of their building at one square foot of sign area for each foot of building frontage, with a minimum of a 25-square foot sign. Commissioner Deaton stated that the signs for this building are really running together with no unifying theme. She asked why these internally illuminated signs are so much brighter than the other lighted signs on Main Street. Mr. Whittenberg stated that this was probably because these signs are new and the colors have not yet begun to fade. Commissioner Deaton stated that this was probably also due to the fact that there are so many of them in a row. Mr. Whittenberg stated that the brightness and colors for this type of sign would usually mute with time and exposure to the elements. He then recommended that the discussion on illumination and neon lights be deferred until a lighting professional is available to make a presentation before the PC. Commissioner Deaton stated that this was fine as long as this issue be revisited as soon as possible, as many of the business owners along Main Street are concerned that the sign standards may be inequitable. Chairperson Ladner asked what the minimum width is for businesses along Main Street. Mr. Whittenberg stated that there really is no minimum. He explained that many of these buildings were constructed in the 1930's and a few businesses only measure 12.5 linear feet of frontage on the street, which is probably the minimum. He noted that Walt's Wharf is probably the widest building on Main Street measuring approximately 75-80 feet in width. Mr. Whittenberg then referred to Page 5 of the Staff Report and the proposal for requiring a Planned Sign Program (PSP) for multi-tenant properties or single-use properties of a certain minimum street frontage or square footage threshold. He indicated that for a major rehabilitation on properties with 4 or more tenants wishing to redo their signage or the fa<;:ade of the building, they would have to apply for approval of a PSP. Commissioner Deaton asked if this would apply to new tenants coming into the Main Street Square spaces. Mr. Whittenberg stated that it would apply if this requirement were in place at that point. Commissioner Deaton stated that she would prefer that the requirement be based upon number of tenants and linear footage of less than 25 feet. She noted that using the 4 tenant requirement could still lead to problems, as a small building that is divided up into 3 smaller parcels would then have too many signs too close together. The same would apply to two-story buildings having 2 businesses downstairs and one upstairs. She explained that under the proposed requirement, these buildings would not require a PSP, as they would be under the 4- tenant requirement. She stated that requiring a PSP would provide for better coordination of signage for businesses along Main Street. Commissioner Roberts stated that the PC might be getting too restrictive with regard to sign requirements for Main Street, but he said he would prefer limiting the number of Page 8 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 . 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 businesses allowed per building to two and adding the requirement for a PSP for any subdivision of a building into two or more businesses. Commissioner Deaton stated that she did not see this as restrictive, but requiring a PSP would prevent having a "hodge podge" of signs as buildings get subdivided. Mr. Whittenberg stated that when business have been in town for a long time, like Walt's Wharf, Ace Hardware, or Bank of America, the public gets used to seeing them and when something happens that creates a change in the building, as with John's Food King, it can create issues like this. He explained that Staff is attempting to come up with the best way to deal with these issues. He said that the PSP could be used for multiple tenant properties of 4 or more tenants, but the PC might still wish to require a MPR for subdivisions of existing buildings to less than 4 tenants. He indicated that the PSP process is much more involved than a MPR, as it is similar to the process for a Conditional Use Permit (CUP) requiring a $750 application fee and mailing of public notices to all resident/occupants within 300 feet. Commissioner Deaton stated that she was not aware that the PSP would be so involved, and as such, the PC would have to look more closely at whether or not this should be required. She indicated that the biggest problem with Main Street Square was the issue of the illuminated signs and the signage not remaining consistent with an Old Town concept. Mr. Whittenberg noted that Staff has received a number of calls from the public stating that they believe the Main Street Square "looks absolutely great now." Commissioner Deaton stated that although it is a beautiful building, it is not in keeping with Old Town and the historic signs. Mr. Whittenberg explained that currently there is nothing in the City's sign ordinances that deals with requiring specific sign styles. Commissioner Deaton stated that this was not what she was advocating. Mr. Whittenberg noted that it would be difficult to define a specific style for signage, and to address this to everyone's satisfaction. Commissioner Deaton stated that the main concern was with the lumens and intensity of lighted signs. The Director of Development Services stated that Staff would prepare language for multiple-tenant properties of 4 or more tenants, and for the MPR process for existing buildings with less than 4 tenants that are subdivided. He then recommended that the Commission recess for 5 minutes. The meeting was recessed at 8:45 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 8:50 p.m. Mr. Whittenberg referred to Pages 5-6 of the Staff Report regarding standards on sign area for permanent and temporary window signs. He clarified that permanent signs identifying the business or product cannot exceed 20 percent of the window area, cannot be displayed above the second floor, and must be limited to individual letters that are painted or stenciled on. With regard to the text content, the Director of Development Services deferred to the City Attorney who added that regulating text and content could be accomplished through size limitation or letter size requirements. Mr. Whittenberg stated that some of the sample sign ordinances provided include specific standards for letter or object size. He commented that window signs are not really designed to be easily read by motorists, but by pedestrians. He noted that any sign Page 9 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 . 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 within 3 feet of a storefront would be counted as a permanent window sign and would be included as part of the 20 percent limit for window coverage, and window signs would be in addition to the aggregate sign area allowed for wall and projecting signs. Commissioner Roberts asked if the 20 percent would include signs showing store hours and "in case of emergency" notices. Mr. Whittenberg stated that it would, but the emergency contact information could be excluded. Mr. Whittenberg continued by stating that temporary window signs in combination with the permanent window signs could not exceed 30 percent of the window area, except at Christmastime when 50 percent coverage will be allowed. He noted that temporary signs could only be used 3 times a year, for 30 days at a time, with approval of a Temporary Sign Permit. Commissioner Deaton inquired about canvas banners. Mr. Whittenberg stated that if they have a Banner Permit, this would be, allowed. Commissioner Deaton inquired about painting on windows. Mr. Whittenberg stated that this would be categorized as temporary signage, and since this type of painting usually occurs during the month of December, it would fall under the 50 percent allowance. The Director of Development Services then reviewed the maintenance standards for signs, as shown on Page 6. Commissioner Shanks asked if this would include backlit signs where some of the lights have gone out. Mr. Whittenberg confirmed that this would fall within the maintenance standards. He commented that with regard to neon signs, there is a wide range of opinion on this type of sign. He stated that neon signs are regaining popularity and in many cases can be quite attractive and beneficial to the community. He indicated that neon signs are not prohibited, as long as they meet the size standards. Commissioner Deaton suggested that for businesses with both an outside sign and window signs, only one of the signs could be lit. Commissioner Roberts stated that he does not favor neon signs, but noted that the City of Pasadena has done of good job of regulating neon signs by limiting the tube diameter used, which provides some control over the illumination or intensity of the lighting. He said he agreed with Commissioner Deaton's suggestion of limiting the number of neon signs a business can have. He also commented on businesses having Christmas lights in their windows during the holiday season, which can also create a lot of added light. Mr. Whittenberg noted that some businesses do put up the clear Christmas lights and leave them up all year, which can add a certain flavor to a building while providing some light to the community. He recommended reviewing decorative lighting separately. Commissioner Deaton stated that she does like the clear Christmas lights in store windows, as long as the illumination is not too bright. Commissioner Shanks asked about controlling businesses that paint signs on vehicles that advertise their business and then park these vehicles in front of the business or on another main thoroughfare. Mr. Whittenberg stated that the City cannot control signs on the vehicles; only how long the vehicle is parked on a street. Mr. Abbe confirmed that this was correct, and that the best way to control this was by limiting the parking time. Page 10 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 . 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 Commissioner Deaton referred to the Pasadena Zoning Ordinance for the use of neon signs, as listed on Page 16 of the Staff Report, and said that this was an interesting concept. Mr. Whittenberg stated that one of the ordinances actually prohibits clear, neon window signs, and this would be something that the City of Seal Beach could incorporate into the sign ordinance. Commissioner Deaton then referred to the Balboa Sign Overlay Program as shown at the bottom of Page 10 and asked if this were what Staff is proposing. Mr. Whittenberg confirmed that this was correct. Commissioner Deaton then confirmed that color or light intensity cannot be changed, with the exception of neon and fiber optic sign light sources. She stated that this type of lighting would not be desirable along Main Street. She then referred to Page 7 of the Staff Report under the Dana Point Zoning Ordinance and asked if monument signs within Seal Beach are to be internally illuminated. Mr. Whittenberg stated that because monument signs are usually close to the sidewalk, for safety reasons they should be internally illuminated. Mr. Whittenberg stated that he would attempt to have sign company representatives in attendance at the next meeting on Main Street signs to discuss illumination, and Staff would also prepare the draft language for the sign standards. He indicated that all business and property owners along Main Street would receive notice of the proposed changes. Commissioner Roberts asked if any of the standards are to be retroactively enforced. Mr. Whittenberg stated that this is another issue that must be discussed prior to making a recommendation to City Council. STAFF CONCERNS Mr. Whittenberg extended congratulations to Commissioner Sharp who will celebrate his 91 st birthday on Saturday, February 26th. COMMISSION CONCERNS Commissioner Sharp stated that he felt the City had a good sign ordinance until these recent issues with Main Street Square arose. Commissioner Deaton agreed, and stated that if this corner would clean itself up, it would save the PC a lot of grief. Commissioner Shanks asked when the models for John Laing Homes (JLH) would be open for viewing. Mr. Whittenberg stated that JLH has received approval from the California Coastal Commission (CCC) to begin construction of the first phase of 14 homes, and the models will not be open until some of the first phase homes are under construction, which might be around the end of March. Chairperson Ladner inquired about the status of the Carl's Jr. Restaurant under construction in the Seal Beach Center. Mr. Whittenberg reported that building plans have been approved and permits can be issued once the fees are paid. Chairperson Page 11 of 12 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 . . City of Seal Beach Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 23, 2005 Ladner asked when the parking lot would be repaved. Mr. Whittenberg stated that he could find out what the final timing on this would be. ADJOURNMENT Chairperson Ladner adjourned the meeting at 9:19 p.m. Respectfully Submitted, C\~ >-.A~ AA ~ Carmen Alvarez, Executive Secretary Planning Department APPROVAL The Commission on March 23, 2005 approved the Minutes of the Planning Commission Meeting of Wednesday, February 23,2005. ~ . Page 12 of 12