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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Min 1993-07-07 'f/" ~. '" ,," . 1 .2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 ~: 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 ..~ . , . . CITY OF SEAL BEACH PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES of JULY 7,1993 Chairman Fife called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in City Council Chambers. I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The Pledge of Allegiance was said. II. ROLL CALL Present: Chai rman Fife Commissioners Dahlman, Law, Sharp, Soukup Staff Present: Department of Development Services: Barry Curtis, Administrative Assistant Michael Colantuono, Assistant City Attorney Absent: Lee Whittenberg, Director Joan FiUmann, Executive Secretary ill. CONSENT CALENDAR 1. Minutes of June 23, 1993 Mr. Colantuono requested deletion of lines 14, 15 and 16 on page 2 because the action on prior resolutions was taken and reflected in the minutes of prior meetings. MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Law to approve the Planning Commission Minutes of June 23, 1993 with the deletion as suggested by Mr. Colantuono. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: ABSTAIN : 4-1-0 Sharp, Law, Fife, Dahlman Soukup Commissioner Dahlman asked for copies of resolutions to be signed to be included in their packets. Mr. Curtis agreed. IV. SCHEDULED MATTERS . 2. Election of Chairman and Vice Chairman Mr. Colantuono stated the City Council took action to reappoint Planning Commissioners Sharp and Dahlman. " '. ~ .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Y" Page 2 - City of Seal Beach · Planning Conmlission Minntes of July 7. 1993 Commissioner Fife nominated Commissioner Dahlman for Chairman. VOTE: A YES: 5-0-0 Fife, Sharp, Dahlman, Law, Soukup *** Commissioner Law nominated Commissioner Fife for Vice Chairman; Commissioner Fife declined the nomination. Commissioner Fife nominated Commissioner Soukup for Vice Chairman. VOTE: A YES: 5-0-0 Fife, Sharp, Dahlman, Law, Soukup *** MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Dahlman that Commissioner Fife continue as Acting Chairman for the remainder of this meeting. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: 5-0-0 Sharp, Dahlman, Law, Soukup, Fife *** 3. Resolutions To Be Signed: . Resolution No. 93-34 12235 Seal Beach Blvd./The Fit Stop Resolution No. 93-34 was not found by staff and was therefore not signed. v. PUBLIC HEARINGS 4. [Contiillied',from: 5/5/93] 16 Mariiia Drive' City of Seal Beach Grotemat Change of zone from Commercial Park (C-P) to Service-Commercial (C-l). Zone Change #93-1 Address: Applicant: Property Owner: Request: Staff Report Mr. Curtis delivered the staff report. 't " ' " .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 ',. Page 3 - City of Seal Beach · Planning Commission Minutes of July 7. 1993 Commission Comments Acting Chairman Fife asked Mr. Colantuono what the term "spot zoning" involved and how it figures into this particular matter? Mr. Colantuono explained "spot zoning", noting that as long as there is a basis explaining why a certain property is different than its neighbors then the zoning is appropriate. He noted both the Grotemat parcel and the DWP parcel are oriented to the San Gabriel River, separated from their neighbors in a significant way, and are deemed appropriate for commercial use. A size distinction can be made between the two parcels, noting a large open space exaction makes sense for the DWP parcel but not for the Grotemat parcel as it would be overly burdensome. Because of these facts, neither of these parcels is a spot zone. Chairman Dahlman asked what the zoning was prior to enactment of the DWP Specific Plan? Mr. Curtis said this parcel was zoned Recreation Commercial/Park. The City anticipated this parcel to be a part of the overall DWP site eventually. When the DWP Specific Plan was heard prior owners of this property requested to be excluded from that Specific Plan and the City Council took this parcel out of the Specific Plan at that time. There is a residential structure on this parcel which does not conform to existing zoning and would not comply with C-l zoning. Acting Chairman Fife asked if the property owner's request conferred property rights he didn't have under the existing zoning? Mr. Colantuono said two steps were taken: (1) change the zoning of both the Grotemat Property and the DWP property to this new zoning with the 70% open space requirements and (2) adopt the Specific Plan. The City Council responded to the Grotemat property owner's request to be excluded from the Specific Plan, which left the property owner in limbo. They are in a district where a Specific Plan is required to do anything and 70% open space is required but the Specific Plan hasn't been adopted. If the loose ends had been tied up at that time, the rezoning presently before the Planning Commission would have been undertaken then. Nobody intended to leave them in limbo. Acting Chairman Fife asked when the site was zoned Recreation-Commercial, was that done with a view to acquisition through condemnation? Mr. Curtis said he was not certain. Mr. Colantuono said the City does not have the power to make zoning decisions to facilitate land acquisition. He thought the burden of the privately-provided, public-serving park could be justified by giving the DWP site greater density on the remaining portions (a hotel). Public Hearing James Rourke. Esquire and Trustee * Law Firm of Rourke. Woodruff & Spradlin. 701 South Parker Street. Orange. CA Mr. Rourke stated he has read the staff report and has no objection to the staff recommendations. He added the Trust did not request the Grotemat property be excluded from the Specific Plan, it was Sally Wiler, a life beneficiary of the Trust. Ms. Wiler is now deceased and the other Grotemat heirs will become the property owners after the Trust terminates this year. There were no questions from the Planning Commission. ... '. .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .2 _ 3 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 . Page 4 - City of Seal Beach · Planning Commission Minutes of July 7. 1993 Gordon Shanks * 215 Surf Place. Seal Beach Mr. Shanks stated the Grotemat property was never intended to be included in the 70% open space. He said this is in the Redevelopment Agency and condemnation of properties can occur. It would have been nice, in the 1970's, if the whole property had been put together. But the owner didn't want it and this is an aberration that occurred and should now be approved. There were no speakers in opposition to the proposed zoning change. The Public Hearing was closed. Commission Comments MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Law that Zone Change #93-1 be approved through the adoption of Resolution No. 93-35. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: 5-0-0 Sharp, Law, Dahlman, Fife, Soukup Mr. Colantuono said the effect of the Commission's action is to recommend to the City Council that the rezoning be given effect. The matter will be referred to the City Council for the adoption of an ordinance. After two readings the ordinance will take effect. *** 5. Conditional Use Permit #92-19 {CQutinued fron,'~/9/93] Address: 111 Main Street" . Business: Clancy's Saloon, Inc. Applicant: Steven Meier Property Owner: Richard H. Wells Request: A six month review of the operation of a bar with the on-sale service of general liquor at 111 Main Street (Clancy's). Staff Report Mr. Curtis explained there is no staff report because this matter was continued from the June 9, 1993 Planning Commission meeting to allow Mr. Meier to consult with an attorney to determine whether or not he would sign the City's Acceptance of Conditions form. The applicant has notified staff that his attorney has recommended he sign the Acceptance of Conditions form. A resolution will be provided for the Commission's review at the July 21st meeting. The conditions in Resolution No. 93-36 were approved by the Planning Commission at the June 9th meeting. Mr. Colantuono explained staff is requesting the Commission confirm the decision they took two meetings ago, with the understanding that staff will bring back a resolution embodying that decision, and the Commission will have an opportunity to examine that resolution and reacquaint themselves with the particulars, a legally determinative decision " .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 ... Page 5 - City of Seal Ileach · PL'IIming CWlUllissioll Minutes of July 7. 1993 will not happen until the resolution is brought back. The Public Hearing was left open to allow the applicant a chance to state his determination; Mr. Meier is not able to attend tonight. Acting Chairman Fife closed the Public Hearing. Commission Comments MOTION by Fife; SECOND by Dahlman to re-affh'm the July 7, 1993 Planning Commission action in light of the applicant's communication that he does not plan to object to any of the City's Conditions of Approval. This approval is through the adoption of Resolution #93-36. VOTE: A YES: 5-0-0 Fife, Dahlman, Soukup, Sharp, Law *** 6. Variance #93-1 tConti~1~~d..trom.:..liI9/93) Negative Declaration #93-5 .... ........ . .. .. ....... Address: 212 Main Street Business: Masonic Lodge Applicants: Brian Kyle & Jim Klisanin Property Owner: Seal Beach Masonic Lodge Staff Report Mr. Curtis indicated that the applicant contacted staff, stated he would be late in arriving at tonight's meeting and requested this item be placed at the end of tonight's agenda so he could offer his statements. MOTION by Dahlman; SECOND by Law to move this item to the end of tonight's agenda. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: 5-0-0 Dahlman, Law, Fife, Sh8l'p, Soukup *** 7. Development Agreement [Conditional Use Pel'mit #92-23 * Variance #92-3] Address: 209 Main Street Applicant: 8J's Seal Beach, Limited Partnership Property Owner: Bichsel 209 Main, Limited Partnership Request: To approve a Development Agreement between the City of Seal Beach and the applicant as a condition of approval of CUP #92-23. " .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 " Page 6 - City of Seal Beach · Planning Conunission Minutes of July 7. 1993 Mr. Colantuono stated only the Development Agreement is before the Planning Commission. Decisions have already been made on CUP #92-23 and Variance #92-3. The applicant has requested continuation on consideration of the Development Agreement until the July 21st Planning Commission meeting because the Development Agreement is still being negotiated. MOTION by Fife; SECOND by Sharp that the Public Hearing for consideration of the Development Agreement for BJ's Pizza be opened and that this Public Hearing be continued to the Planning Commission meeting of July 21, 1993. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: 5-0-0 Fife, Sharp, Dahlman, Law, Soukup *** 8. Conditional Use Permit #92-2 Address: 101 Main Street, Suite 0 Business: SeaSide Grill Applicants: Ronald and Patricia Sesler Property Owner: James Watson Request: Indefinite extension of CUP #92-2 and modification of conditions of approval to change hours of operation to closure at 1:00 a.m. daily. Staff Report Mr. Curtis delivered the staff report. [Staff report on file in the Planning Department]. Mr. Curtis read two letters received in connection with this application [Attached to Minutes]: 1. Pastor Shoemacher of Grace Community Church - Requesting extended hours not be granted. 2. Ron Molinari, 163 Electric Avenue - Supporting longer hours of operation. Acting Chairman Fife asked if the fights Pastor Shoemachers refers to emanate from SeaSide Grill patrons? Mr. Curtis said no mention was made of exactly where the participants came from. Commission Comments Acting Chairman Fife asked what hours BJ's was approved for? Mr. Curtis said BJ's was approved to close at 11 :00 p.m. on week-ends and holidays and 10:00 p.m. on week nights. ... .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 " Page 7 - City of Seal Beach · Planning Commission Minutes of July 7. 1993 Public Hearing The following persons spoke in favor of this application: Ron Sesler. Applicant * 101 Main Street. Seal Beach. CA Mr. Sesler said he wished the City would review its policy on operating hours. He indicated the first year of a business determines whether it fails or succeeds. He said the City gave him one year with restricted hours and told him that if he made it the City would consider lengthening his hours. He said he doesn't need 11 :00 p. m., he needs at least midnight. Patti Sesler. Co-Owner of SeaSide Gri11 Mrs. Sesler said many people work late hours and look for a place to eat at 10:00 p.m. She said she hoped the Commission would extend their hours to midnight. Harlan Kel1y * 1125 Catalina Ave.. Seal Beach Mr. Kelly said Seal Beach needs a restaurant with later hours. The noise level at SeaSide Grill has always been kept under control. John Stamps * 610 Coastline Dr.. Seal Beach Mr. Stamps said he felt Main Street businesses are no different that Pacific Coast Highway businesses; he urged the Commission to think about the City residents. While he was in favor of extended hours for SeaSide Grill, he said many Coastline Drive residents oppose McDonalds and Taco Bell staying open 24-hours. He favored a local businessman being able to make a living. He felt al1 of the beer and wine establishments should have the same hours of operation. He said the City needs more revenue and that that would more likely come from serving alcohol than from serving a $ .25 taco. Sol John * Seal Beach rNo Address Given] Mr. John said the business places should be given a chance to operate with more freedom. He said the City needs more police. Diane Kel1y * 1013lh Seal Way. Seal Beach Ms. Kelly said she is a member of the silent majority. She said that turning down extended hours would amount to turning down a salary raise and urged the Commission to think about American enterprise. Gil Alvarado * Hair Salon Business Owner at 101 Main Street Mr. Alvarado said he has owned the hair salon next door to the SeaSide Gri11 for twenty-one years and he has no complaints about noise from the SeaSide Gri11. The patrons are not a noisy group. If anyone swears Mr. Sesler throws them out. He said he sometimes works to 11 :00 p.m. and goes next door to get something to eat. .. .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 ~ Page 8 - City of Seal Beach · Plllmling Commission Mmutes of July 7. 1993 Audrey Winthrop * Seal Beach rNo Address Given] Ms. Winthrop said it's difficult to find a nice place to sit and converse with friends. The SeaSide Grill's closing at 10:00 p.m. forces them to lose $1,000 to $2,000 in business. No name as tape was being switched on tape recorder Responding to Pastor Shoemacher, said the church was not there when Clancy's and the lrisher were built. The church was built afterward, behind those bars. The SeaSide Grill will not add to the noise level on Main Street. He said that there are bars on Main Street which can remain open until 1:00 a.m. and 2:00 a.m. Jim Klisanin * 122 7th Street. Seal Beach Mr. Klisanin addressed the equity issue, saying if it's good for one business it's good for all businesses. He would not want the City to tell him to close his real estate office on Sunday because Sunday is a very busy day. Saying that this applicant can't have extra hours is the same thing. He said the employees at SeaSide Gri11 work very, very hard to serve all their patrons and he was in favor of the extended hours. Ray Longoria * 1495 Seal Way. Seal Beach Mr. Longoria said he has taken his family to SeaSide Grill. He has also been disappointed to go there late at night and not be able to get served because the grill and oven are turned off. He is in favor of extended hours. Melinda Atkinson * 234 6th Street. Seal Beach Mrs. Atkinson, a twenty year City resident, favors extended hours to at least midnight daily as long as the business operates in a responsible manner. She asked why there is an hours distinction between a "47" and a "41" license. Chairman Dahlman said the Commission inherited this situation --- where there are two tiers of operating hours for beer/wine versus liquor selling establishments. There are two bars which have existed before the zoning code was established and intimated these establishments have been 'grandfathered' for years. He would like to see the 'grandfathering' situation change slowly over a period of time. Acting Chairman Fife asked Mr. Colantuono to comment on the regulatory differences between the ABC and local jurisdictions regarding the class differences between the types of licenses. Mr. Colantuono replied the City has not distinguished between applicants for CUPs for alcohol- related land uses based on the type of ABC liquor licenses they hold. The City has made distinctions between new uses and previously existing uses. Regarding previously existing uses, the City has less leverage and has been unable to budge those uses off closing times that the Commission and Council have deemed incompatible with the residential neighborhoods that are extremely close to Main Street. The City has applied leverage where it has it, treated newcomers to a tougher standard with the hope that some day the existing uses can be brought to that same standard. There are only two bars on Main Street --- Hennessey's stays open to 2:00 a.m. and serves food. That CUP was issued in 1985 and the City's policies have become clearer and stricter in the passing eight years. .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Page 9 - City of Seal Beach · Planning CommissIon Minutes of July 7. 1993 Kristen Stangland * 6th & Ocean. Seal Beach Ms. Stangland said the SeaSide Grill is not responsible for all wrong-doing in town. She felt the people opposed to this application had valid reasoning but was not sure the reasons were directly related to the SeaSide Grill. She felt the SeaSide Grill has followed the conditions of their City CUP and the State ABC laws and run a valid business. Mike Newton * fNo Address Givenl Mr. Newton said he has been to the SeaSide Grill twice after 6:00 p.m. and didn't find it too rowdy. He enjoys the establishment, finds it wholesome, clean and well-managed. He is in favor of extended hours. Commissioner Sharp asked for a show of hands for all those persons wishing to speak further in favor of this application and then to continue with the opposing speakers. Mr. Sharp agreed with the prior speakers that Mr. and Mrs. Sesler are nice people and the SeaSide Grill is a nice establishment. Chairman Fife said it is always difficult to close off debate. He asked those speakers who wish to speak in support of this application to hold their comments unless they have new testimony to give, to hold their comments so the other side can be heard and a decision can be reached. Gene Wagner * 210 Fourth Street. Seal Beach Mr. Wagner said the Sesler's are responsible people and serve responsibly. There are laws to deal with irresponsible people. Granting additional hours would not add to any problems in the City. Nicola Hoke * City Resident [No Address Givenl Ms. Hoke said she is an employee of the SeaSide Grill. She said if it weren't for her job there she would not be putting herself through college. Extending the Grill's hours would help her greatl y . Monique Harf * 531 Riveria Drive Ms. Harf said she is an employee of the SeaSide Grill, the Sesler's are great people and her husband doesn't drink. The following persons spoke in opposition to this application: Margarita Hood * 116 Main Street. Seal Beach Ms. Hood said SeaSide Grill is requesting a closing of 1 :00 a.m. and the bars close at 2:00 a.m. She said the SeaSide Grill has built a counter right underneath the windows facing Main Street. The customers sit right in the window drinking and eating. The noise is "absolutely unpleasant". There is hollering and talking, with each person trying to talk louder than the other. Her apartment is across the street and the hollering is very unpleasant. Her tenants work and must have their sleep. She cannot afford to lose tenants because of the noise coming from the SeaSide Grill. Clancy's bar is very cooperative by closing their front door at 10:30 p.m. every evening. .. .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Page 10 - City of Seal Reach - Planning Conunission Minutes of July 7. 1993 Clancy's bar has air conditioning and the SeaSide Grill does not. She asked the Commission to consider the City residents. David Rosenman * fNo Address Givenl Seal Beach Mr. Rosenman said the City has been attempting to set uniform closing hours depending on the class of the establishment. He felt City staff has indeed heard the City Council's message. He felt the indefinite extension of this CUP would be alright. He called the City's Police Department twice regarding an intoxicated person on 8th Street and the Police didn't want to take the report. Therefore, he felt reliance should not be placed on a Police report. He urged the Commission to support the staff report and work toward consistency in hours. Jay Salma * Seal Beach fNo Address Givenl Mr. Salma read a letter from his friend, Kathleen ByKerk, who cannot attend tonight and who lives at 116 Main Street [Attached]. Ms. ByKerk said there has been an increase in noise since the SeaSide Grill opened one year ago. She felt the physical design of the SeaSide Grill, with doors and windows wide open and facing Main Street, contributed to the noise. She said she would support the request for extension of operation hours if the Grill would enclose their dining area and provide air conditioning. Wendy Rothman * Ocean Avenue. Seal Beach Mrs. Rothman said that although the Sesler's are well liked, City decisions are not based on personalities. She felt the issue here is "fact versus fantasy". The factual determination to be made is, is this a bona fide restaurant? It serves chicken wings, sandwiches and a salad. It has no dishwasher. She stated she has looked inside the Grill many times and with one exception only, has never seen any patrons with any food. She has only observed patrons with large schooners of beer in front of them. Her friends went there for dinner tonight and they were the only two people eating the entire time they were there --- everyone else was drinking. It's clear that the SeaSide Grill is primarily a bar --- a mini Hennesseys ...". She said standard operating procedures for restaurants provide for closing at 10:00 p.m. on week-days and 11:00 p.m. on week-ends. After those hours the consumption would primarily be alcohol. She said "This establishment serves primarily alcohol both day and night, the issue is do you want another late night bar in Seal Beach? Do you want to open the door for all other restaurants on Main Street to become bars until 11 :00 p.m. or midnight?" She asked the Commission to deny this request. Gordon Shanks * 215 Surf Place. Seal Beach Mr. Shanks said nobody is personally against Ron Sesler or this restaurant. "But it's not a restaurant and Wendy's points were very valid". We have to have a city of laws. One year ago, when SeaSide Grill opened, Mr. Sesler said he was going to serve breakfast but he has not. Is this a delicatessen or a beer bar? He felt it is becoming more of a bar than a deli. The applicants are not bad people, they are trying to get ahead as fast as they can, and there is nothing more American than that. But the Planning Commission and City Council have the job of setting uniform rules. He said he would like to keep the town as much the way it is now as long as possible. He doesn't want Seal Beach to turn into a Belmont Shore with place after place open to 1:00 a.m. and 2:00 a.m. He said the City Council has given clear direction on .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 '4 .. Poge II - City of Seal Bench · Plnnning CommissIon Minulc,s of July 7. 1993 this application by denying extended hours for SeaSide Grill when it was appealed. The extension of hours should be denied. Lois Briggs. Island View Drive. Seal Beach Ms. Briggs said she has lived in Seal Beach over forty years and has watched the City change. The majority of the people want to have a city which is pleasant and comfortable for everyone to live in. She said many of her Belmont Shore friends are desperately trying to sell their houses because Belmont Shore has become one bar after another. Many of the bars started as restaurants and have continued to a point where it's extremely unpleasant to go to Belmont Shore in the evening. The change slips in rather slowly, very pleasant, nice groups start out and open a place. As is happening here, it escalates and after awhile things are very badly out of control. She said tonight's turnout of people has to do with SeaSide Grill having large signs posted in their establishment urging people to come to tonight's meeting to testify. Brent Matthews * 8th Street. Seal Beach Mr. Matthews spoke against the extension of hours for SeaSide Grill. He said the City enjoys a City Council elected by the majority of the community. In representing the majority, the Council has set reasonable guidelines for our mixed use community. Their policy on hours of operations recognize that we al1 share the same space. SeaSide Grill is asking for a special privilege not granted to other establishments serving beer and wine. The community worked hard to elect the current City Council who share concerns of the majority of the residents. He was upset the City staff would deviate from the standards clearly set by the Council at the last appeal from the same applicant. Existing policy on hours of operation is a compromise which is working and should not be changed. It should come as no surprise to the applicants that Seal Beach wants to maintain the existing hours of operation. The community never intended to allow SeaSide Grill to operate as a bar. He urged denial of the request for extended hours. Ken Radcliff * 4880 Hazelnut. Seal Beach Mr. Radcliff said the applicants have prior experience in operating restaurants. He stated he is getting conflicting messages --- if the hours are not extended the City is in a position to put them out of business --- the restaurant is very crowded and sometimes you can hardly get inside. He felt deception going on. When the Grill was started the applicants asked for 10:00 p.m., the time was not imposed by the City. They passed themselves off as the SeaSide Grill with the idea to get a foot in the door, then get extended hours, hoping to make their profit on liquor. Not too many people eat much after 10:00 p.m. --- there are a few people who don't have regular habits. So we real1y are talking about drinking. He felt the applicants keep asking for extended hours and where will it stop? He felt they should have asked for 1 :00 a. m. and called themselves the SeaSide Bar. Rebuttal - Ron Sesler Mr. Sesler, referencing Mr. Radcliff's comments, said his original request asked for midnight closing hours, not 10:00 p.m. He has had six bars, restaurants, delis. Regarding the legalities of liquor licenses versus beer and wine licenses, ABC says 6:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. The City set the restrictions and he felt this is a bad way to do business. Businesses should be allowed .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Page: 13 - City of Seal Beach * Planning Commission Minu\cs of July 7. 1993 after a year in operation, feels 12:00 a.m. is needed. Commissioner Soukup asked what the argument would be for going in the other direction --- opening earlier --- at 7:00 a.m. Mr. Sesler suggested Commissioner Soukup walk downtown and see who's there at 7:00 a.m. For dollars spent and time open there's no money at 7:00 a.m. The public dictates when you will be open. When he has opened early, on request for lOK races, he sits there with himself and his waitress. Commissioner Soukup said the testimony in support of this application called for equity. There are only four restaurants in town that have hours later than 10:00 a.m. --- Hennessey's, Papillon's, Kinda Lahaina, Walt's Wharf. These establishments are clearly different than the SeaSide Grill as they have a bar area and have a much larger restaurant area. It would be difficult to clear people out at an earlier time; there are extenuating circumstances. Bajou St. John closes at 10:30 p.m. daily. The public recognizes the closing of restaurants at 10:00 a.m. Mr. Sesler indicated every restaurant in town is violating their closing times because they have to. Restaurants cannot prepare and people cannot eat quickly enough to close on time. When you say close at 10:00 p.m. you are really saying close at 9: 15 p.m. Commissioner Soukup asked if this situation would perpetuate itself no matter what the closing hour? Mr. Sesler said no, people would quit eating at 11 :00 or 11 :30. But 9:30 p.m. on a summer night is ridiculous. Commissioner Soukup asked Mr. Sesler if he would allow the Planning Commission to look at his receipts as the ABC has that privilege? Mr. Sesler said the Commission is welcome to. His percentage of food sales to liquor sales is 50%/50%. Commissioner Soukup said he felt the concern was the restaurant would become a bar and with additional late night hours the percentages of alcohol sales would increase. If he had applied to be a bar or tavern, he did not think the Planning Commission would have allowed this to happen. Mr. Sesler said he has been self-employed for 25 years and has had six bars/restaurants and two auto dealerships. He has never seen any regulations such as what exists in Seal Beach. Commissioner Soukup explained to Mr. Sesler that the point is Seal Beach is a bedroom community and he chose to enter a bedroom community to engage in business. Mr. Sesler said he felt the SeaSide Grill has not disturbed Commissioner Soukup's sleep but the noise at the pier probably has. Mr. Sesler said he didn't feel there was an over concentration of liquor licenses in the downtown area because Tootsie's, Red Lobster and Green Onion are out of business. Commissioner Soukup indicated ABC calculates the formula for over concentration. Acting Chairman Fife closed the Public Hearing. Commission Comments Commissioner Sharp said the location of SeaSide Grill is practically on the beach. The younger couples today eat at later hours. There had been no negative Police Department reports on this establishment. He would like to see air conditioning installed to be able to close the windows and doors by 9:30 p.m. or 10:00 p.m. He saw no reason to deny the applicant's being open to 12:00 a.m. Chairman Dahlman said the new restaurant, BJ's Pizzeria, will have closing hours of 10:00 p.m. If this applicant is approved to 12:00 a. m. there will be a parade of eight or ten restaurants who will apply to have longer hours. The equitable way to approach hours of operation is to address the issue with the Main Street Specific Plan which is currently being prepared. If the City " .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Page 12 - City of Seal Deach · Planning COlllmission Minules of July 7, 1993 to compete. Regarding Wendy Rothman's comments, Mr. Sesler said they have three full-time cooks and if they're not cooking what are they doing? Acting Chairman Fife asked how feasible it would be to install air conditioning so the windows and doors could be closed? Mr. Sesler said he would have to check into it. He is making plans to soundproof his ceiling and possibly re-doing the tile floor. He doesn't want to be a nuisance to any of his neighbors. As a new restaurant he has had a lot of expenses. He spent thousands of dollars for a new refrigeration system. Acting Chairman Fife said their ABC license requires a minimum of 50% of their sales be from food items. Does ABC check this? Mr. Sesler said this is true but in all the bars he has owned, he has been checked only once. It's difficult to tell a customer he must order a sandwich before he has another beer. They did open for breakfast for a few days but it didn't work out. They now open at 11:00 a.m. ABC conditioned his hours to 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. daily. Acting Chairman Fife said the Planning Commission must consider what kind of message is the City Council sending? No one's interest is served to do something that is promptly reversed again by the Council. Commissioner Sharp said the Planning Commission's prior vote was contingent on the ABC's changing their terms, because ABC would not reverse their decision for one year and Mr. Sesler was back in six months. Mr. Sesler agreed to stay at 11:00 p.m. for one year. Chairman Dahlman said the Planning Commission had approved the applicant's request for an extra hour on a split vote. The City Council reversed this decision for the following reasons --- the applicant was premature and there had been an alleged violation. The request constituted an expansion of the alcohol use which the City Council found incompatible with the neighborhood. Mr. Sesler said he didn't understand why there had to be six and twelve month reviews of CUPs. He would like to see the Council and the Commission address the real problems. Chairman Dahlman asked Mr. Sesler to review his ABC license for a correction on his hours of operation to opening at 8:00 a.m. Commissioner Soukup asked Mr. Sesler was his original request for hours to midnight? There is a handwritten note in the packet which says "We wi11 be serving breakfast with hot entrees and for lunch and dinner, we wi11 be serving hot gri11ed sandwiches. We will include soups and other hot entrees. We wi11 have an assortment of beverages, coffee, fresh brewed tea, soft drinks, beer and wine. We would like to open 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. Friday and Saturday and legal holidays. We will employ two full-time employees and one part-time employee. We wi11 also work. We will have a grill, oven, friars, cooking range, beverage dispensers, salad prep table and refrigerator. There will also beverage signs displayed. We have lived at 1511 Ocean Avenue, Seal Beach for 171h years". This is in contradiction to what we just heard. Mr. Sesler said he thought he had asked for midnight seven days a week. When he opened a year ago, Tootsie's Restaurant also opened. That owner cal1ed him the other day to tell him they have just vacated the premises. He's been fortunate. If when he opened he thought 10:00 p.m. or 11:00 p.m. would be sufficient he now, . .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Page 14 - City of Seal Beach · Planning Commission Minutes of July 7. 1993 addresses each applicant one-by-one the Commission could be unfair to someone. He did not recommend any change in the current hours of operation. He would recommend indefinite extension of their CUP. Commissioner Law had no comments. Commissioner Soukup said he would reiterate his discussion with the applicant. He believes the City should be consistent with the closing of restaurant hours on Main Street until such time as the Main Street Specific Plan is developed. He indicated that he has eaten at SeaSide Grill and has passed by daily. On all occasions only a small percentage, 1 %, of the patrons were eating. The rest of the patrons had schooners of beer in front of them. "This is not a restaurant that I can see, in a full sense of the word". He didn't want to vote for something that could result in a parade of many bar/tavern type establishments. Acting Chairman Fife said his position has been the enhancement of uses on Main Street with caution. He has been on record for a long time for the City to develop a plan for what the City wants Main Street to be and specifically to move on the parking issue. The testimony on noise needs to be addressed by the Commission. He would be inclined to support an extension of hours to 11:00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday and to 12:00 a.m. Friday and Saturday as a one year conditional use, not an indefinite extension, for the purpose of being able to look at this again when the Main Street Specific Plan is developed and the parking issues are fleshed out. Additionally, additional conditions should be: . The windows and doors be closed by 10:00 p.m. · The full menu will be available for ordering up to one half hour prior to scheduled closing. Keeping in mind what the City Council did at the last appeal, it would be almost certain that the Council would reverse a Commission decision to grant the applicant's current request. MOTION by Fife; SECOND by Sharp to approve a change in hours of operation for CUP #92-2 as follows: . 7:00 a.m. to 11 :00 p.m. Sunday through Thmosday · 7:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. Friday and Saturday, Special Events and Holidays. Additionally, · The windows and doors will be closed by 10:00 p.m. daily. · This will be a twelve (12) month extension with review at that time. This is not an indefinite extension. . The food menu will be available for ordering without substantial reduction of items up t.o one-half hour prior to scheduled closing. .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Page 15 - City of Seal Beach · Planning Commission Minutes of July 7. 1993 Before the vote, Chairman Dahlman said he could not support this motion because although the applicant has cured two of three Council findings in reversing the Commission's prior decision, he has not cured or addressed the first finding, the intensification of use of alcohol-related uses on Main Street. That should best be dealt with in the Main Street Specific Plan. Also, Chairman Dahlman felt the City would see eight or ten applications to amend their operating hours for extra late night hours. It's inequitable to other establishments to give extra hours to this applicant. Commissioner Fife responded that one self-limiting factor that sets in, is the reality of business competition. There may be an appeal to the City Council, but Commissioner Fife felt this is a reasonable compromise. Commissioner Soukup agreed with Chairman Dahlman. He said he could agree with Commissioner Fife comments on all points but he could not agree to changing the hours. He said he may be persuaded that SeaSide Grill stay open to midnight on Friday and Saturday because that's the week-end and there's not the work week to contend with. It still opens the door for many other applications for later hours. Regarding fair competition, there is nothing to stop the competition from advertising in outside areas to bring in people; the Belmont Shore analogy is a fair one. SUBSTITUTE MOTION by Soukup; SECOND by Dahlman to keep the hours of operation the same: . 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Sunday through Thursday 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. F..iday, SatUl.day and Special Events/Holidays. . The windows and doors will be closed by 10:00 p.m. daily. . This will be a twelve (12) month extension with review at that time. This is not an indefinite extension. . The food menu will be available for ordering without substantial reduction of items up to one-half hour prior to scheduled closing. The Acting Chairman said one motion is on the floor and that must be voted on first. Commissioner Soukup said Robert's Rules of Order demanded the Substitute Motion be voted on first. Mr. Colantuono said if there's a second on the Motion to Substitute then the Commission should immediately go to a vote, without discussion, as to whether or not to make the substitution. If the Motion to Substitute passes, then the Substitute Motion is on the floor for debate. VOTE on PROCEDURE to SUBSTITUTE MOTION: 3 - 2 - 0 AYES: Dahlman, Law, Soukup NOES: Fife, Sharp The Substitute Motion is now on the floor for discussion. Commissioner Soukup said his Substitute Motion should include all points in Commissioner Fife's Motion except the hours of operation should not change. He is in favor of air conditioning and acoustical improvements. .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 ~4 Page 16 - City of Seal Deaeh · Planning Commission Minulcs of July 7. 1993 SUBSTITUTE MOTION FAILED: A YES: NOES: 2-3-0 Dahlman, Soukup Fife, Law, Sharp The main Motion is now on the floor. MAIN MOTION CARRIED: AYES: NOES: 3-2-0 Fife, Sharp, Law Dahlman, Soukup Mr. Colantuono stated a resolution embodying this decision will be presented to the Planning Commission at its July 21st meeting. When that action is taken the time for appeal will begin to run. *** RECESS TO 10:00 P.M. *** 6. Variance #93-1 {Conti-filled frprid)/~/93] Negative Declaration #93-5' . . '.. Address: 212 Main Sft"eet Business: Masonic Lodge Applicants: Brian Kyle & Jim Klisanin Property Owner: Seal Beach Masonic Lodge Request: Request for a Variance allowing a change in use from a fraternal lodge/assembly hall to a general retail/business office mixture. The applicants request credit for 28 pal"king spaces, where the subject property currently provides none of the required on-site parking. Staff Report Mr. Curtis presented the staff report. [Staff report on file in Planning Department]. Mr. Colantuono said because of the abstract nature of the application and staff report, an impression could be formed that the purpose of this discussion is to decide how many 'grandfathered' parking spaces this building should get. First, the Commission needs to look at the uses. The applicants want restaurant, retail and office uses. Staff is saying they can't justify the parking impacts of a restaurant use on this site. Staff is alternately recommending that retail and office uses only be allowed. When discussing the Variance regarding parking impacts, you would discuss how many parking spaces are needed for the use. If a restaurant were involved 28 parking spaces are needed. If there is no restaurant involved, 18 parking spaces are needed. Staff recommends the Commission grant this Variance for those 18 parking .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Page 17 - City of Senlllench · Planning Commission Minutes of July 7, 1993 spaces to allow the property owners to make a retail and office use of the property. The Variance findings will turn on the nature of the use. Staff recommends converting this property from a fraternal use, with a seemingly limited future, to retail and office. Commission Comments Commissioner Soukup asked Mr. Colantuono if consideration of retail/office uses are separate from the building they are housed in? Mr. Colantuono said no, the Variance findings are going to turn on the fact that they couldn't build the necessary parking without tearing down a useful structure. In this case, they don't need a CUP for the use itself. This is a Variance for a particular use. That use must be evaluated in that building, on that site, on that block. Acting Chairman Fife asked if, during that evaluation process, the Commission operated under a premise that they should lean to finding some economically feasible use for the property. Perhaps not the optimum from the land owner's point of view, but something? Mr. Colantuono said yes. Staff's recommendation says we have to allow the owner some use of the building so let's allow them that use of the building which will have the least parking impact, so staff chose the lowest parking requirement which is retail/office. Commissioner Soukup said he remembered a Commission ruling on the issue of 'grandfathered' parking which said the parking spaces are not 'grandfathered' unless the use remains the same. Mr. Colantuono said this is correct and that's why the property owners are applying for a Variance. If they simply wanted to function as a fraternal use they wouldn't need any City permits. Commissioner Soukup said the staff report indicates that if there was a maximization of this building as a lodge/party hall that it would be more intense than a use as office/retail. However, the City Attorney says retail/office is a diminishing use. Mr. Colantuono said the Negative Declaration states the existing use is infrequent but extreme. When it is used the lodge could have up to 200 people. Mr. Colantuono said he was concerned with the applicant's statement that continued use of this site as a fraternal lodge is not economically viable. Unless there's evidence suggesting it's economically viable, he would be concerned to force the applicant into the one use that won't fly because, the City must allow them a reasonable economic use of the property. Commissioner Sharp asked Mr. Curtis what cooking equipment is in the facility now? Mr. Curtis said there's a ful1 restaurant-style kitchen downstairs. Public Hearing Brian Kyle * 7th Street. Seal Beach Mr. Kyle introduced himself as the applicant. Mr. Kyle said you could seat 169 people in the downstairs dining room and 170 people upstairs. He said he feels this use just doesn't fit on Main Street. He was thinking of a bakery with tables and chairs, not a restaurant with alcohol. Acting Chairman Fife said he observed the level of fraternal lodge type activities in the Country is declining (Elks, Moose, VFW) in membership rolls. Mr. Kyle agreed, saying that when he .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 ~4 Page 18 - City of Seal Beach · Planning ConlllliKsion Minutes or July 7, 1993 met with the Masons they told him that when their membership declines to a certain level they must consolidate with another lodge. This facility has more kitchen square footage than Walt's Wharf. Commissioner Fife noted a congregational lodge would put many cars on Main Street. It would seem the applicant could not make a viable use of the facility in its continued capacity. Chairman Dahlman said the staff report indicates this facility cannot operate as a restaurant, and thus cannot operate as a bakery as envisioned by the applicants. He asked Mr. Kyle what comments he had on this. Mr. Kyle replied he would like to have a bakery and thought it would be a good asset for the community. Commissioner Soukup asked Mr. Kyle what his long term development plans were for the development of this property, as retail/office seems vague? Mr. Kyle said he has not figured out a tenant mix. Historically, the upstairs would be offices and downstairs could be an antique barn. He feels comfortable with retail/office but would feel more comfortable if a small bakery were included in the plans. Commissioner Sharp asked staff if this site becomes retail/office and at a later date he wanted to have a bakery go in as a bakery (without tables and chairs), could he come back to the Commission and not have a problem getting it approved? Mr. Curtis said yes, because a bakery use is retail, as long as no seating area is provided. Chairman Dahlman said one of the conditions of the staff report is to remove the cooking facilities and asked Mr. Kyle for his comments. Mr. Kyle said this is a large cooking facility, but if it has to be removed he will remove it. Acting Chairman Fife asked Mr. Kyle if he agrees to the conditions outlined in the staff report? Mr. Kyle said he had some questions regarding the following conditions: #3. Development Agreement. He spoke with staff about a Development Agreement since nothing is being done. #4. If he continues to operate a fraternal use he doesn't have to participate in any in- lieu parking program. Commissioner Fife said this might be due for a change because the Planning Commission has considerable interest in leveling the playing field on Main Street, even if a Main Street Specific Plan is not developed. Everyone may pay something as a function of the off-street parking they are short with the idea that that money will eventually build the required parking. Mr. Kyle questioned signing and recording an in-lieu parking agreement or an alternative document acceptable to the City. He preferred an alternative document as he felt it would cause fewer problem with his lender. #9. Mr. Kyle questioned having to purchase six street trees and a bench, saying he has put two benches on Main Street and planted trees on Main Street. $5,000 .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 ~4 Poge 19 - City of Se:lI Beach · Pl:anning Commisoioll Minulrs of July 7, 1993 sounds like an excessive amount. Mr. Curtis said the $5000 would ensure the City's costs were off-set for the trees. Mr. Kyle would be refunded any monies not used to purchase the trees and benches. No one wished to speak in favor of this request. David Rosenman * Seal Beach Mr. Rosenman spoke in opposition to this request, stating he did some calculations on parking needs. These calculations show twice the parking needed for a retail/office use. He said he had problems with the Negative Declaration not adequately addressing the parking impacts. Acting Chairman Fife said Mr. Rosenman must analyze the parking impact from the actual permitted level of usage and the property is not being used anywhere near the level of intensity that it may be used at. Mr. Rosenman said he understood that but still felt the Negative Declaration was deficient on this point. Mr. Rosenman said he was concerned that this building could end up being a restaurant/bar. Commissioner Fife said that if the applicant, at some later time, requested a restaurant use he would have to apply for another Variance, showing the Commission he was getting no adequate return on the present use and convince the Commission they should grant him to be 28 parking spaces short. Mr. Rosenman, said the purchase price of this site was reduced, compared to other properties, because it was felt this property would not bring much of a return because it didn't have any parking. Commissioner Fife said this was part of staff's analysis too in proposing a less demanding form of use. This form of use would not generate the kind of return for this owner that it would get if it were a restaurant. Sol John fNo Address Givenl Mr. John said this is a nice building and should be kept as it exists, it shouldn't be torn up. He suggested it could be used for a hospital. Wendy Rothman * Ocean Avenue. Seal Beach Mrs. Rothman said she was concerned with the facts used to support the Negative Declaration. She said she had talked to two long-time members of the Masonic Lodge and they affirmed the lodge was rarely used to capacity. To conclude that large gatherings were common place and therefore this would be a de-intensification is not accurate and are unsupported facts. The fact is, there is not one parking space. The problem here is disregarding the rules. It seems that after enough exceptions have been made, the exceptions will swallow the rule. The rule is that this building has a 'grand fathered , in permitted use and no more. When the economic use is over and when the property doesn't conform then that's the time to follow the municipal Code; if not now, when? She believed approving this Variance would add to the parking problems and would be premature. .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Poge 20 - City of Seal Jle.1eh · Plonnmg COl1\misslon Minutes of July 7. 1993 Mrs. Rothman asked if the City owes a non-profit fraternal organization an economically viable use? Mr. Colantuono explained "economically viable use" is a legal term of art, it doesn't mean they have to make a profit. It means they have to make some reasonable use of their property. If there were evidence in the record that there was a demand for a fraternal use of this property and that they could use it in that way and get meaningful benefit from their property, then the Commission could deny the Variance. He was not aware of any such evidence. Mrs. Rothman said she was not sure that could be concluded. Whether there was a demand or not would depend on the price and the price depends on the use. She did not know if this property was ever marketed as a fraternal organization. It was sold based upon a change in use. Mr. Colantuono said he had to look at what he could defend in court if he had to and he would be very reluctant to defend a position to flat out deny this Variance based on the evidence he has seen so far. Mrs. Rothman asked if it would be wise to see if there's a market at a different price? Mrs. Rothman asked if a purchaser were owed t~e right to use the entire building --- the upstairs and the downstairs? If the price is affordable, perhaps in City's in-lieu parking fees could purchase this building and be a partial solution to alleviating the parking problems. Mark Hodgekiss * rNo Addressl Seal Beach Mr. Hodgekiss said that in the eleven years he has lived in Seal Beach he has never noticed the Masonic Lodge being used. It's one of the least intensive uses of any property on Main Street. The Negative Declaration falls short in assessing what the impact is. It's mistaken to consider the granted uses of parking when you consider environmental impacts. CEQA makes it clear that the actual use and the actual impacts is what is important, not what has been granted. The Negative Declaration should have had further environmental review. He said he was in favor of granting a retail use. The City has made a habit of voting for Negative Declarations and granting categorical exemptions for issues on Main Street that clearly have an impact and should be addressed. Chairman Dahlman asked Mr. Colantuono to clarify the land use decisions in the Negative Declaration and what the applicants are entitled to do with the property versus CEQA law. Mr. Colantuono said he agreed with Mr. Hodgekiss on what CEQA requires but disagrees with his analysis on what the Negative Declaration does. The Negative Declaration is required to analyze the proposed use versus existing conditions and it does so. It concludes that if this project concludes in a Development Agreement and participates in a parking in-lieu program and is subject to the Main Street Specific Plan that there won't be a significant environmental impact. That's the same kind of analysis that the City adopted with respect to B1's proposal; the City has been consistent. The City is not requiring EIRs in these cases because they take a year to prepare and often cost $20,000 or $40,000 and typically focus on intensive environmental impacts. We are seeing less categorical exemptions because the City Council instructed staff not to use categorical exemptions on Main Street. ... .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Page 21 . City of Senl Bench · Planning Commission Minutes of July 7. 1993 Gordon Shanks * 215 Surf Place. Seal Beach Mr. Shanks said this building is built from the sidewalk to the alley, legally you couldn't get a trash dumpster on the property; this is not adequately addressed. This City is in need of a large building to hold large functions. He favored retail/office over a restaurant use. His major complaint is the City leaves itself exposed without a firm in-lieu program. How much that property is worth depends on how much the owner is going to have to pay for in-lieu parking. When you add BJ's Pizzeria and this site together you start getting a large parking requirement. The political and business repercussions are such that the business people will come to the Commission and say "You are going to put us out of business if we have to pay $3,000 for 18 parking spaces". If the parking costs are known prior to starting a business the man can make a viable decision. Rebuttal * Brian Kyle Mr. Kyle said he is not certain what is the best use for this site but felt the office/retail could be the best use. Commissioner Fife asked Mr. Kyle if he understood that in accepting the Variance and signing to be subject to a future in-lieu parking program that the numbers could be a surprise and could be substantially more than what he might be envisioning? Mr. Kyle said he understood but under protest because what options does he have? Commissioner Fife said if the City says we're not going to allow anything until we get this cost analysis figured out then Main Street goes into an economic dead zone for possibly a year or two. The alternative is to let people in with the understanding that they have not acquired vested rights by that process and they have to trust to sensibleness on the part of the City. About $7,000 to $8,000 is what a parking place is worth. The figures will probably be higher than what a business owner would expect. But hopefully it will be start toward a permanent solution to the parking problem. Jim Klisanin * Seal Beach [Audio tape did not record comments]. Public Hearing was closed. Commission Comments Chairman Dahlman said this is a difficult issue. On one hand it's a very heavily conditioned Variance with all impacts mitigated. On the other hand, there are no parking spaces now and they won't have any parking spaces. He favored the Variance. Commissioner Sharp said that with this Variance the City would get monies for the 18 parking spaces that it hasn't been getting for the 28 non-spaces. He favored granting the retail/office use. Commissioner Law agreed with Commissioner Sharp. , .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 Page 22 - City or Senlllench · Pln1l111ng Commission Minutes or July 7, 1993 Commissioner Soukup questioned the Coastal Commission having signed off on the project, asking Mr. Kyle if he would experience trouble at the Coastal Commission if the City approved this Variance? Mr. Kyle said he expected no problems. Commissioner Soukup said a Coastal Commission letter reflected they were not convinced this was a de-intensification, they had problems with the traffic study using old numbers, they were unsure about the parking credit problem and what the applicant would be charged in the future and they felt the project should support its own parking demand. Now, Mr. Kyle is saying the Coastal Commission would sign off on this project if the City will. But while the City needs a meeting hall that is not something the Planning Commission can legislate. He was in favor of granting this Variance as long as the applicant abides by all the conditions, plants the trees, puts the benches in and signs on the in-lieu parking program. Chairman Dahlman asked Commissioner Soukup if the lack of a loading dock and/or space for trash cans portended a future problem with this property functioning properly? Commissioner Soukup said Mr. Colantuono said the building structure must remain as it is, the City cannot force demolition. Chairman Dahlman said the Commission should not a110w intensification of this use if it is at the expense of his neighbors. Mr. Colantuono said the City can require the applicant to operate the building in a way that it doesn't cause a public nuisance and is not incompatible with its neighbors. There is a condition in place requiring them to work out their trash problems. The City can't te11 the applicant they have to tear down the back half of their building to provide parking. Acting Chairman Fife said he would support this Variance. MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Law to approve Variance #93-1 for retail/office uses with eleven (11) Conditions of App.'oval as presented in the staff report through the adoption of Resolution No. 93-38. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: 5-0-0 Sharp, Law, Dahlman, Soukup, Fife Mr. Colantuono said staff will bring a resolution back to the Commission at their July 21st meeting. When that resolution is approved there will be a ten (10) day appeal period to the City Council. At a later date, staff will work with the applicants to bring a Development Agreement before the Commission and Council for approval. VI. ORAL COMMUNICATIONS Garak Pasch - representing Don Pasch and Linda Krueger at 332 8th Street, Seal Beach. He indicated he insta11ed a pump to .pump water out from beneath her house. In February he realized the water being pumped out is coming from Jack In The Box, from their irrigation system. Is this her problem or a City problem? , .. .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 .4 . Page 23 - City of Seal Beach · Planning COlllmission Minutes of July 7. 1993 Mr. Colantuono said this is a private, civil dispute in which the City should not get involved. The City will provide the name of the property owner and perhaps a phone number. In the absence of a municipal Code violation that the City could enforce it remains a civil matter. If you have reason to believe the Jack In The Box's grading is different that the grading plans approved by the City or is draining in a way that's different than the building permits issued, the City can deal with that. But if it was built as approved and it just so happens that they are over watering it's not a Code violation and is not something the City can involve itself in. VD. STAFF CONCERNS There were no staff concerns. VDI. COMMISSION CONCERNS Council Member Laszlo Commissioner Sharp said he had not heard anything on Mr. Laszlo's condition. Commissioner Fife said he talked to Mr. Laszlo last week on the phone and he sounded fine. He plans to start attending City Council meetings this month. Alternate Planning Commissioners Commissioner Fife indicated the Bixby Specific Plan matter was coming before the City shortly. He has been informed by the City Attorney's Office that he will be excluded from participation because his home backs to Lampson A venue and his home is within 300' feet of a portion of the project. His district will be unrepresented at the Planning Commission level. He asked, with the support of the Planning Commission, that the City Attorney be authorized to examine possible ways to allow for a provisional Commissioner to step in for all issues for a temporary period of time or to represent the district with respect to this project. If no resolution can be found he would be inclined to resign from the Planning Commission entirely. MOTION by Sharp; SECOND by Dahlman to recommend the City Council ask the City Attorney to pursue a way that a provisional Commissioner can be found to represent District 4 for the Bixby hearings. MOTION CARRIED: A YES: 5-0-0 Sharp, Dahlman, Fife, Law, Soukup Mr. Colantuono commented the FPPC does have a small cities regulation but Seal Beach is too big to be a small city. It requires a very small population (less than 25,000) and a certain number of square miles. These rules are quite strict. One solution may be to amend the Ordinance which created this Commission to ~ .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .~ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 . . Page 24 - City of 8",,1 O""ch · PJ:ulIling Commission Minutes of July 7. 1993 provide for five alternate Commissioners, one per district. With the alternates to serve when the regular member is unable to serve for any reason. FI y-Over Commissioner Fife asked if there is word on the fly-over of the Los Alamitos airfield? Mr. Curtis said he would defer to Mr. Whittenberg. Commissioner Sharp said he would like to have a full tour. The Commission discussed this tour with respect to the Brown Act. Mr. Colantuono said the Navy may not be willing to allow the public to attend; Commissioner Fife agreed noting they might attend in less than quorum groups. IX. ADJOURNMENT Acting Chairman Fife adjourned the meeting at 11:30 p.m. Respectfully Submitted, C1o~o.-,~ JoAn Fillmann Recording Secretary NOTE: These Minutes were transcribed from an audio tape. APPROY AL: The Planning Commission Minutes of July 7, 1993 were approved by the Planning Commission on July 21, 1993. '* '. . . . ~ ",'71;") City ot Seat n... ~l:;. .nmR Cf1111l11l:.:.;.... SliL... ..J ri}~ klCOI(O 1J1~l{~K D.:li; 9- r- 9.3 _._ JD t.J~ {.f Y'Ylt1.J CtJru.vvtJ COP tt: 9;;Z - ~ fI - . -, J , \JI i I ta W'v:J, ftt~ <7 io l M ~ , ~.f..U.J ~~ ~~(i'~)'I-W J~t ~ ~ i>>n. 10 .u-tJ-rtJ.. d..uA.- ~ ~ -ro I A.IV\. ~ ~ U, 1/ ~ 11t tivrL \4f. Of-f :tt- I) ~ ~,~r1 ~ ~ ~uJ. 'hc1~ utLtrd- Lhn . 6~ ~ ~)~~ CA.jfJJ~ ~ct 0.. ~. ~ ~ V1'\. 'rJ...t fL&U.Q.., ~ h,1o MV../ Dfr>>a?:~. & ~ lA ~ ~o.AU..- ~ R&f~J ~ ~ ~ W~~J1.u~"'o~~ ~~u~AVjJ ~ IY1-Uf ~~, ::1fJ1.l.J...e. ~ ~ Ih\.. S ~ ).9 A.di M -ro ~ o.JJ. ~ ~ -f1j ~ ~ T U.) oJ,(}().L ~ ~ uAoJ:tiN. D~~ v.R>.4 iJlrMI- ~)J Wd/.) lAA\o..bu 10 jioJc.A ~ ~ ~&.,vL~ ~ f!.w.ef. 6l.AJoL ~~~~~~J~od ~~~~~-~ j6IJ -4LL)~ Cf if!'" ~ Jr~~~ ~ ~ ~f ~ 'I--lk ~-~ ~ ~ 11 U&-V~ I J ~'fA.L1 ~ ~-t o...~&. ~)~~UM~ -ro~J~ ~ UAI.~~~ ~~0~k.~~~W- ~ -J ~ L,+ ..f-o Ju., ~" ~ ~ '. ~ J ~'t ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~.h7V...J Jun.;u;) ~ ~ IW\t I 'll d..u4 . . t . . . ' City of Seal Seac.h p!~!jnir.~ c.r.;n~:~::;~..' SUBMIn[i) F(:!; Rt~0kQ 8y l{~cJ<... Dale 7- '1-- 9~ c= \. Q;P #9il-;z, ~ ~~ f3v.el J ~ ~ lIYt.~ ~ ~ dl-WI e1.. Vn~ ~ ~ O~b/.~TO~~~ ~cl.e 0-/1W Ju ~ J~ (]i~ Rwu t ~ ~~~..d0J~e.e..-1 oJ~~ fYkt~F~ o...tr <..3 ~~~~ M\.L ~ ~w..L ~ ~ r>A1Vl().A1~~ h~/L, ~ CJML~~VOJ~ ~~4 ~ ~kj ~iuJ:zJ ~ c41~ t;R1 hA..LJ ~ ~ o!tJA.. ~ t;). m J 'J fU:.~ ~ ~~ ~~~ w:fo t~~~~, ~ ON(aZL \tJ-: ~ ~ ~iA ~ ~~M ~ ~ ~ ~.J.(u9 m~, tAhlrJ..LA ~ !h\. ~ ~ ,d. M <>l~ k 'wt.::!" 0f I od ~ ~ tt ~ o+A-.u..6A.Wl. (J~~ ~J ~ ,~~~ ~~ ~~~ 6d~tt~,) (4 n~ ~'1AM -LWv.Ji; 6-lol.~ cd-tJtM ~ wo&.lJ~ode- ~ ~~,JIu.- ~~ ~ ~~~ ~;~~J IT~J fA ~~V ~cI ~ 'tk- ~~ ~b' u . ok ~;t~ . ;:j~ t.M 10 ~ ~~) ~M ~k-l-o r~ o.d fNen.k.. ~6~ ~~ ~ (J4..<:1 C\ ~ ~ r ~ 'To LAc..-~ U L-/I~ .~~~ ~ ~ ~ s.4:k ~~ ~, 06, k - € fh Kuk G~P ~ - Jl b N\.OV\M~. <>j T. 1:1= 1 a.~ 03 1 ICf r3 I . J I~ 1u- <<- ~~ ~~~~~~ J -:E~ t Pe ~A j\.Q f.k- 1-~ 6:t ~ . I ~ ~ ~(J 6r.-.F I e-..: ~ ~ ~) ~ ~ ~dCM-'t4/~ ~ ~ .. ~~~. . 1J~ 4 p~ ~ a- w-ik-- / c14--, ~ ~ ~4 C~ 7:;~~~ ~~~ . 71:0 ~ ~~ u-i~~~. JW\- ~ -t; ~ ~ G--I~ v C">o- ~ e- ~r. . . 72~ ~~ . /(P 3 ~ ~ ~~ City of Seal Beach Planning Commission SUBMITTED FOR RECORD By NOJ..,/IJ/Jlll Date ? - '1- ~:3 C!. (),o #"'I.7-;;t .