HomeMy WebLinkAboutEQCB Min 1988-08-16
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COPIES OF THESE MINUTES ARE TO BE DISTRIBUTED WITH STAFF REPORTS
TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR SEPTEMBER 7, 1988:
CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS
Victor Grgas
Edna Wilson
Joyce Risner
Frank Laszlo
Joe Hunt
PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS
Jim Sharp
Emmett Suggs
Joe Rullo
Ron Jessner
Phillip Fife
~/Ol$-/g ~
~ JZ.Yc...
EOCB MEMBERS
Ray Fortner
Lowell Kolb
Gayle Knapp
Donald Eisenberg
Stephen Gavlick.
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DEPARTMENT OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES
Ed Knight
Elline Garcia
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CITY OF SEAL BEACH
ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY CONTROL BOARD
AUGUST 16, 1988
MINUTES
1.
CALL TO ORDER
Chairperson Gayle Knapp called the meeting to order at
8:00 p.m.
2.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Lowell Kolb led the Pledge of Allegiance.
3.
ROLL CALL
Ray Fortner, District 1/0ld Town
Lowell Kolb, District 2/College Park West, Leisure World
Gayle Knapp, District 3/The Hill
Donald Eisenberg, District 4/College Park East
Stephen Gavlick, District 5/Leisure World
Also Present:
Edward M. Knight, Director, Development Services Department
Elline Garcia, Administrative Aide, Development Services
CHAIRPERSON KNAPP stated that this was a special meeting, being
called to hear a one-item agenda review of the Mola
presentation. She noted that last year EoaS had well attended
Scoping Sessions when they reviewed the EIR and made subsequent
recommendations to the City Council. Ms. Knapp stated this
meeting was called at her request because she saw significant
changes (in the Mola presentation) and wanted the pUblic to be
aware of these changes before this process was finalized. She
noted that the EQCB meetings are at 8: 00 (to accommodate some
board members who work far away and can't get to Seal Beach by
7:30 p.m.)
CHAIRPERSON KNAPP corrected the Agenda, hearing from Mola
Development first, then Board members (to answer questions they
had in relation to their approvals and recommendations), and then
pUblic input. She said the EQCB Board could then decide if they
wanted to make any new recommendations, leave the old ones in
place or make changes.
MR. KNIGHT discussed items in the Staff's report and then turned
the meeting over to Kirk Evans of Nola Development. (See copy of
Staff Report attached for reference).
. Page 2 - EQCB Meeting of August l6, 1988 - Minutes
KIRK EVANS, MOLA DEVELOPMENT REPRESENTATIVE
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This project is the same project that was before you three years
ago when we first started the study sessions. The Specific Plan
was approved in October 1987 and at that time the City Council
made various decisions regarding Gum Grove Park, the golf course
and development with many mitigation measures, not only an EIR,
but as conditions of approval for a future tract map.
Subsequent to that, Mola met with the Coastal Commission staff as
well as staff from the Fish & Game Commission, Natural Marine
Fisheries, and Fish & wildlife Services, and Corps of Engineers.
At that time Mola was apprised of a land use plan designation for
this area which had been approved. The City's local coastal plan
is not approved by the Coastal Commission but the staff does have
an Land Use Plan (LUP). In that LUP it mentioned that there was
19.6 acres of wetlands that they would like to be restored on the
Hellman Ranch property. At the time the 19.6 acres was addressed
and the study was done, it included the entire Hellman property-
- the 232 acres, not only the l48 acres were developing. It said
that the wetlands restoration should take place roughly north of
First Street. They developed a plan to account for 20 acres
north of First Street. Mola presented this to the staffs and
were told it was totally unacceptable; that they did not want to
have a restored wetlands. That it was in similar condition that
it is today. They wanted something really nice, enhanced, that
would be very benef icial to the environment. They wanted a
twenty acre parcel somewhere on the property, roughly in the
southwest corner of the property. Right now there is direct
access to the San Gabriel River that will allow the water to come
in with tidal action. The plan right now, that is being worked
on by the State and the federal government, as well as LSA (who
has done a lot of wetlands restoration projects) - they're going
to come up with exactly how many acres of water should be there,
how many acres of Pickleweed, mud flats, salt flats, things of
this type. They will determine exactly what shall be in that
area. Before they agree on the acreage ... we had to go out and
study the entire Hellman Ranch area. We had to go out and field
measure all of the areas that are considered wetlands today. The
areas that are considered wetlands today basically fall along the
same lines as the Coastal Commission had done in the 1980' s.
That plan showed roughly the water that's out there right now is
roughly 1.4 acres of water, and there's about 16 acres of
Pickleweed and the remaining is indigenous shrub. Some of the
agencies look at just the hydrology... the Coastal Commission is
the most critical. They look at all three definitions of
wetlands. They want to see the hydrology, the vegetation, the
soil. So if you have a certain type of soil that is normally
associated with wetlands --to the Coastal Commission that is
considered wetlands. To the Corps of Engineers, they might say
(on the one hand) that if it has the right soil but it doesn't
have the vegetation, then they don't look at it as wetlands. The
Corps of Engineers has said
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Page 3 - EQCB Meeting of August l6, 1988 - Minutes
(pretty much) that although they're the permitting authority, to
work it all out with every agency involved and they'll issue the
permits if they approve what's been done. So basically, what
we've done is go to the most critical definitions of what
"wetlands" is and that means, that if the soil is wetlands then
that area is included in the wetlands. Further studies are being
done right now and it has been found that cars have been driving
on the Hellman Ranch property. If there is Pickleweed growing on
two sides of the dirt path then the Coastal Commission is saying
if you didn't have cars driving there, then chances are that that
dirt path might fill in with Pickleweed and hence it could be
classified as wetlands at a future date. So they have asked us
to include those acres into our plan that we had already
completed. The original plan that we had completed that omitted
those areas was 23 acres of existing sorely degraded wetlands.
Adding those areas in we got it to somewhere around 25 acres. I
believe the Coastal Act requires we restore 75% of those
severely degraded wetlands before we're allowed to build on the
project. So basically that's where we left it with the State and
Feds. At the last meeting we had they said this looks better
than what you had before. They withheld their approval on the
exact acreage until they were sure exactly what was out there
today. We then came back to the City of Seal Beach and met with
Mr. Knight and showed him the changes we were forced to make in
order to get the 20 acres of wetlands south of First street and
on our property. At that time it was determined that because we
had wetlands where we once had a golf course that we should have
a Specific Plan amendment. And we have applied for a Specific
Plan amendment. We also have application in for a Tract Map, a
Vested Tract Map, a Precise Plan, the Parcel Map.
The other issue that came up was the Gum Grove Park issue. As
you may recall, Mola Development, when we first came before this
body, the Planning commission and the City Council, we offered to
dedicate Gum Grove Park to the City of Seal Beach. We merely
said the property going north to south is a little too narrow to
provide as wide of an area as it is today but we would give the
Park to the City and they could maintain it, accept liability,
whatever they would like to do; we were turned down at that time.
We also offered to extend Gum Grove Park all the way
out to Seal Beach Boulevard which, by the way, is the same way
that it was on the original Ponderosa Plan that was approved by
the City Council and was in the existing Specific Plan. That was
also turned down because of concern about access off Seal Beach
Boulevard. Right now what we have done is based on giving the
extra 20 acres of wetlands. We have taken a new look at our
plan. We had the golf course architect re-layout the golf course
and right now it is a par sixty golf course although Ted
RObinson, the architect, feels very comfortable with the
challenge of this course. He says as long as we are spending the
money we are talking about spending on the course, there
shouldn't be a problem with getting to play. The other thing
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we've done and before the Planning Commission, is showing the
economic analysis of an l8-hole golf course as well as the
economic analysis of a 9-hole golf course. Initially everywhere
we've turned has told u.s that a 9-hole course will not make it
economically versus an 18-hole course. What you have is the same
amount of installation costs, the same maintenance costs but
roughly half the revenues. By far, going with an 18-hole, par 60
is much better. The course will be a pUblic golf course forever.
There will be deed restrictions put on the property. No tax
dollars will be used to maintain the golf course; it will be
owned privately but it will always be open to the pUblic.
The other change that c::;ame about on the plan is we moved the
original access off of First street to our single family homes
and had it come straight through to Forrestal -- we moved that up
northerly, closer to Regency to enable us to have better play on
that one golf hole and also provided a few more houses on the
fairway as opposed to in the middle of the project. It also
allowed us to provide what the City Council had asked for --- and
that a tot lot wi thin the single family homes as well as a
recreation area. There are three tennis courts proposed, which
is what we had before for the condominium owners but we have
added two new pool areas for the condominium owners as well.
other than that, and for the shifting of a few condominium
buildings, nothing has changed. We have spoken to the home owner
who is most affected by the building coming close to her house
and she 'doesn't have a, problem with it. The height of the
condominium buildings wi.ll still be below the paths of existing
homes along Crestview. The homes along Crestview are at an
elevation of 55 and the~ condominiums elevation starts around 4
and the roof line is about 39 feet from the floor elevation so
roughly the roof line is about 43. So they would not block
anyone's views or anything else. We have taken a harder look at
the golf course to make sure there wouldn't be any problems with
golf balls hitting houses etc. Most of the homes that are along
the golf course are ab01Llt 30 - 40' above the golf course. The
Gum Grove exhibit (that we have up there) shows the solid dark
line on the bottom to be the existing fence line. One of the
things that we tried to do was to find out why that fence line
was put right there. And we talked to the Hellman people today
and basically when the City entered into a lease with the Hellman
family the Hellmans at that time refused to sell the land to the
City and wanted to lease it because they wanted to maintain their
options. They allowed t:he City to put a fence in, maintain the
property, pay the property taxes and in return the Hellmans would
allow the City to utilize Gum Grove Park. It is set up (from
what the Hellmans told me) as a neighborhood-type park for the
people on the Hill, who are already walking thru the trees and
things of this type --- they'd still be able to do it, but the
City would maintain it. The 5.8 acres (which is a little darker
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Page 5 - EQCB Meeting of August l6, 1988 - Minutes
green line that you see there) is where the existing tree
line is right now. The difference between the two (color) greens
you see is the flatter area. The parking areas, the driving lane
and (down toward the east part of the property where there's some
picnic tables etc. right now). The City Council asked us to
provide 6.8 of land wi thin Gum Grove Park wi thin our existing
golf course --- when we lost the 20 acres everything shifted a
li ttle bit and we did lose roughly 2.1 acres of land over and
above what we have originally tried to provide to the City.
There was nothing in the EIR or nor the Specific Plan that holds
anything to 6.8 acres. It's more a matter that Gum Grove Park is
going to be a part of the golf course but we'll maintain it and
we'll provide the nature trail and the wilderness areas that you
have now. The difference between the 5.8 acres (which is
existing there right now) and the 4.7 acres (is the darker green
up there) and you can't differentiate because there's not that
much area there until you get further east into the Gum Grove
Park area. These areas will be part of the golf tees or
fairways. Every tree that we take out within the 5.8 acres of
land we will be required to replace and we will replace each tree
for tree within the 4.7 acres if we can do it without having too
much crowding in there. The nature trail which exists today...
we will still provide the nature trail, we will have 3 separate
picnic areas within Gum Grove Park (referring to an
illustration showing what the picnic areas will visually look
like). Those are the only changes that I'm aware of right now
and I'd be pleased to answer questions.
KNAPP: calls first for EQCB board member questions,
to be followed by public questions and comments and then any
further Board concerns.
FORTNER: Could you explain the new configuration regarding the
nature trail.
EVANS: The nature trail will come in off of Avalon. At Avalon
we would put some bars to keep cars from driving in there. The
nature trail will go the same length it goes today. Right now
Gum Grove Park will stay the same length that it is today. It
stops (referring to a map) ... the nature trail (referring to a
map) and at various locations on that trail we will have
picnic areas set up. The trail will be on a relatively flat area
but there's slope above and below it. (This is shown in the
illustration's cross section.) This is still our proposal, the
City must act on it --- whether they want the picnic areas, the
nature trails etc. Today the Mola engineers were supposed to be
out there staking out the 4.7 acres of land so that people could
walk out there and see where the 4.7 acres are. We will try to
rope it off sometime so that people can understand what we're
staking it for. The staking was done today I think; I can't make
any promises.
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Page 6 - EQCB Meeting of August l6, 1988 - Minutes
FORTNER: How does the driving range configuration fit in now and
the lighting from that?
EVANS: It's basically pretty much the same way it was. In order
for a golf course to "make it" economically or not can depend on
whether or not it has a driving range. The proposal we had
before the City, and which is a condition of approval, is that if
we can design a new driving range for lights so that the lights
will not intrude upon the privacy of the homeowners along the
Hill we will bring that design back to the Planning
Commission and maybe the City Council (I can't remember) for a
CUP approval. We'll show them how the lights will be designed.
If it is permissible we will install the lights only on the
driving range. But in the event the lights do not do what we
thought they could the City would have the right to tell us to
remove them and we would have to do that. There are no plans for
lights anywhere else on the golf course. It's strictly on the
dri ving range and strictly that the lights would not interfere
with the homeowners ... . We will have the end of the driveways
fenced off so there will be no problems with your 300 (yard)
hitters hitting any of the homes. Those homes up there are about
40 feet above the driving range.
. KOLB: How high would the fence be on the driving range?
EVANS: I don't know. We will have to talk to the expert on how
high the fence has to be in order to protect any homes in that
area. Right now I don't think it has to be too high because the
homes are up to 40 feet above that area. Probably 20 feet; I
don't know exactly. Part of our approval is to meet with the
homeowners and go thru the golf course design so they can voice
their concerns. If there's a way we can redesign the golf course
we would certainly be doing that.
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FORTNER: Given the new configuration, can you tell us the
approximately density of the dwelling units there and how that
might compare to some of the other areas in the community. There
have been some recent letters in the newspapers; I think it might
be helpful to hear about it.
EVANS: The first plan had 18 acres set aside for the single
family homes and today it's still l8 acres. There were 24 acres
set aside for the condominium development and there are now 26
acres. The difference between the 24 and 26 acres is that at the
time the Specific Plan was approved the consultant that was doing
the EIR was measuring from the footprint of the building. Once
you submit a Tract Map you come out from that building 5 feet.
And if you drew a circle around an entire development you'd pick
up about an acre and a half by coming out 5 feet from the
building footprint. So in figuring the density, if you take net
density as opposed to gross density over the entire site you'd
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Page 7 - EQCB Meeting of August l6, 1988 - Minutes
probably come up with a little less in the condominium area. But
the overall density, which is the way the EIR ... (could not
understand the tape) from 5 or 6 units to the ... which is across
148 acres. We have not been asked to calculate the density for
600 condominiums on 26 acres.
FORTNER: Mr. Evans, do you have any idea what the density is in
other areas of Seal Beach?
EVANS: No.
SPEAKER (?): Do you have any plans for a public parking lot for
residents of the City to park in the (Gum Grove) park?
EVANS: The City Council made the decision not to have the
parking lot in the Gum Grove Park area. Gum Grove Park is a
neighborhood park -- so there wasn't much traffic there.
KOLB: You said the Land Use Plan (LUP) for all of the area was
19.6 acres originally.
EVANS: Yes. Plus the Coastal Commission made mention of the 32
acres retention basin. The original Ponderosa Plan that was
approved as the Specific Plan which was adopted as the LUP by the
Coastal Commission did not have wetlands shown on the plan ... .
The golf course lost roughly 20 acres. The Park itself was
always included in the l05 acres. Gum Grove has never been
separated from the original plan, it was always been a part of
the golf course. The 20 acres we had to give up to the wetlands
came right out of the golf course. In order to get the landscape
buffers at the wetlands that the Federal and State governments
wanted caused the golf course to shrink 1.1 acres.
KOLB: Regarding a buffer between the golf course and the park?
EVANS: It's a public golf course and someone from the park could
actually walk onto the course. We are proposing a wrought iron
fence on the top of the hill. Most of the people don't want a
solid wall blocking the view of the golf course. Whatever the
homeowners want we will build.
EISENBERG: Regarding parking has there been any study
regarding the impact on the Hill area is going to be from the use
of the park without any available parking on site?
EVANS: We do not advocate having a parking lot put in simply
because we feel that homeowner would not appreciate a parking lot
near his yard. Right now, off Avalon, there is a flat area that
we're proposing a little bench area with a lot of trees -- you
might be able to park 3 - 4 cars in there.
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Page 8 - EQCB Meeting of August l6, 1988 - Minutes
EISENBERG: Referring to page 3 of the Specific Plan
modifications: it suggests to me that replacement trees will be
at the ratio of species trees, 24" box trees and 15 gallon trees.
How big is a 15 gallon tree? Evans: It comes in a l5 gallon
bucket. If we do the required pruning ... you will not have the
overgrowth you have now ... a l5 gallon tree is about 6 feet.
But it will look sparse. "will be at a ratio of species tree"-
please explain. It sounds like you're removing acres of old
trees and replanting only one acre of new trees.
EVANS: Right now there is 5.8 acres of grove area. We're
proposing 4.7 acres of grove area. The difference between the
two is we're removing 1.2 acres of existing grove area. If we
can save a non-diseased tree we will save it. ... We don't want
to take out any tree we don't have to. We must do a full tree
study before we do any grading. If we are able to move a tree
wi thout harming a tree we will do so wi thin that 1.2 acres of
land and build the golf course around it. We're also proposing
to replace tree for tree but we want to avoid overcrowding -- now
and in the future. We will do whatever the City wants us to do.
KNIGHT: I'd like to clear up one point --- the new park will be
4.7 acres, the tree line is 5.8 acres -- but part of the 4.7
acres currently has no trees in it right now. New trees would be
put in that location. Of the 5.8 acres of trees, aprox. 2 acres
of trees would be removed due to golf course impact or disease.
The impact to the 5.8 grove is aprox. 2 acres -- a portion of
that would be made up in another area which currently has no
trees and new plantings would take place. A "specimen" tree is a
certain size and age, a 24" box is a step down from that and is
aprox. 8 - 10 feet tall with a 2 inch trunk, a l5 gallon is about
6 feet tall with a 1 inch trunk. A Eucalyptus tree grows very
rapidly. . The 24" boxes will grow slower than the l5 gallon
because there's less shock. The effect upon the initial
planting will look like a variation in sizes ... but wi thin 5
years they'll all catch up to each other.
KNAPP: We're looking at the 4.7 acres we have
5.7 acres not 1.1 acres. I don't
misrepresented over and over - we're losing
wilderness park.
left; we have lost
like seeing that
over half of the
EVANS: The fence line is lO.5 acres and the tree line is a 5.8
acres. I apologize for the fact that I didn't know this Board
was going to go into detail. I thought they'd advise on
environmental issues. Otherwise I would have brought my
architect.
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Page 9 - EQCB Meeting of August 16, 1988 - Minutes
KNAPP: When you were refiguring your plans to keep the same
length golf course and the same length gum grove did you consider
taking out a condo unit, the driving range or some homes instead
of taking out open space?
EVANS: Yes, we considered taking out the driving range. But we
also considered the action the City Council took and the Specific
Plan -- the ma jor concern is that the golf course is a viable
enti ty . Not only a recreational amenity to the Ci ty of Seal
Beach but overall to maintain itself economically.
KNAPP: If any changes are to be made, one would have to
influence the City and not Mola, right?
EVANS: Right. We did not look to cutting density units out of our
si te to preserve Gum Grove Park . .. Gum Grove Park is part of
the golf course per the Specific Plan. It's not culled out in
the Specific Plan as a park.
KNAPP: Mentioning the Coastal Commission
negotiating the 19.6 acres?
did it need
EVANS: No, its a law. The law is that you will replenish 75% of
all the area wetlands that you are building on. In the early
1980's the Coastal Commission did the study to determine how many
acres of wetlands we were building on; by a Mr. Radovitch. It
was also done again by our consultant, LSA of Newport Beach. We
had meetings in the field with all members of the Fish & Game,
the u.S. Wildlife, Corps of Engineers, National Fisheries, and
Coastal Commission wherein we walked the entire Hellman site and
showed them exactly what was mapped out and showed them exactly
what was included. ...
KNAPP: Has the Coastal commission seen the proposal of the 20
acres?
EVANS: We have not been before the Coastal Commission and can't
until the City Council has acted.
KNAPP: How does the City Council know this is the correct number
of acres? '
EVANS: Make it conditional.
KNAPP: Lighting on the driving range.
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Page 10 - EQCB Meeting of August 16, 1988 - Minutes
EVANS: The Specific Plan that is approved today allows us to
provide lighting only after we have had a public hearing. It is
approved conceptually. This is part of the Specific Plan. We're
not positive we're going to have lights; we just want to have the
option. The City has the jurisdiction to require taking the
lights out if it doesn't work properly.
SPEAKER (?): How much does a Eucalyptus tree replant cost?
EVANS: I don't know the exact costs.
KNAPP: Summarized a letter EQCB received from Gisselle and Jeff
Dei tner expressing concern about the Mola Development. Talks
about the wetlands and Gum Grove importance.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
JOYCE RISNER, 845 DRIFTWOOD - Ms. Risner commented that she could
not see the green line on the map indicating the boundaries of
Gum Grove Park. She expressed concern that the condos would be
196' from the nearest home on the Hill. The condos are building
on a 10 foot sea elevation level. This would make the 39' condos
at 49' elevation. She also questioned the proposed night
lighting of the golf course.
ROBERT POST, 1615 CRESTVIEW - Mr. Post expressed his concern
about the staking which had taken place earlier in the day. He
was concerned about the staking coming close to the houses on
Crestview. He also indicated that he would like the proposed
dri ving range moved to another location. Suggested increasing
Gum Grove Park 50% or more.
RANDALL JOHNSON, 1505 CRESTVIEW - Mr. Johnson inquired as to the
elevations of the proposed project, to which Mr. Evans replied
30-35 feet. Asked if owners have option for a gate from their
yard to golf course. Mr. Evans: Yes.
SUZANNE ANDRE, 1300 CRESTVIEW Ms. Andre informed the
Boardmembers that she represented a group known as Save Gum Grove
Park and said that they were not anti-development, but pro-park.
Ms. Andre then outlined a petition which she claimed to have 476
signatures supporting the park. Surveyed bluff side of Crestview
--- 75% in favor of the park.
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ROBERT THAYER, BEACHCOMBER - Mr. Thayer introduced himself as a
Professor of Psychology at Long Beach state and expressed his
concern over the changes in the community and the problems that
the resulting changes in density would cause to nearby residents.
He requested a reduction in density in the proposed project to
100 fine homes, Mola would still make $50.million. Quality of
life is issue.
JOHN HIRSCH, 1325 CRESTVIEW - Mr. Hirsch expressed his concern
with the stress caused by the proposed project. Mr. Hirsch said
that he valued the open space provided by Gum Grove Park. He's
18 year old --- used the park as he grew up and wants it for his
children.
ALICE STEVENS, 224 4th street - Ms. stevens expressed her concern
over the staking which had taken place earlier that day. She
spoke about the value of the native wildlife. She uses the park
daily.
RUSSELL MJORATI, 1725 HARBOR WAY - Mr. Mjorati spoke about the
fact that there are few open spaces left in the area, and that he
would like the park to stay the same or even require it to be
increased.
JANE McCLOUD, 700 BALBOA - Ms. McCloud indicated that she thought
that the native wildlife should be maintained, and, accordingly,
that the park should be maintained in its present state. Ms.
McCloud also said that she would like to see the buildings
reduced with access roads at both ends of the proposed project in
case of emergency.
SCOTT WILDMAN, 99 WELCOME LANE - Mr. Wildman had questions
regarding the map of the proposed project. He specified that he
would like the park maintained with more single-family dwellings
and less condominiums.
RILEY FORSYTH, 523 RIVIERA - Mr. Forsyth spoke about the lack of
parklands for children.
GORDON SHANKS, 215 SURF PLACE - Spoke about the fact that money
for parks is very difficult to acquire. He suggested the flood
retarding basin for the driving range.
MARIO VOCE, 730 CATALINA - Mr. Voche stated that Gum Grove had
been abused and that the wetlands produced oxygen. He then
indicated pictures he had taken of the site.
MARK RILEY - Mr. Riley stated that the park is necessary. He is
25 years old; he grew up here.
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Page 12 - EQCB Meeting of August 16, 1988 - Minutes
GALEN AMBROSE, 613 SEABREEZE - Mr. Ambrose stated that he would
like to see a reduction in the condominiums and an enlargement of
the park.
END OF PUBLIC COMMENT
BOARD COMMENTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
KNAPP: Stated she felt the strongest point this evening is what
Mr. Evans said --- this is what Mola is proposing. Mola is not
pushing this on us; it is up to our City officials to accept or
reject this. The park acreage is not in the Specific Plan; she
didn't realize that. They're referred to as "the golf course"--
- and is it "golf course/park" or just "golf course"?
KNIGHT: It would be in the golf course because it's not a
dedicated park.
KNAPP: I think we should recommend to the City Council that Gum
Grove Park be identified in the Specific Plan as 10.4 acres and
maintained and restored as it should be done and should be part
of the Specific Plan. I think other things I've heard here
tonight are very valid -- like an additional access road for
safety, more single family homes and less condos, relocating the
driving range, a longer golf course instead of a shorter one.
Only pUblic pressure is going to make a change at this point;
we've done this before! (Public pressure got the park lease in
the first place 20 years ago. Public pressure prevented a
freeway from crossing the Navy base and made it into a national
wildlife refuge.) There's a City Council, Planning commission
and Parks & Recreation meetings in the next month and a half!
EVANS: What you have before you is an approved plan. This is
nothing new - we've had plans before us for other projects. This
plan has been approved by the City Council twice before and has
been approved for eight years.
KNAPP: And Ponderosa didn't happen.
FORTNER: You have summarized well Madam Chairman. Our
recommendation to the City Council was well thought out --- the
original recommendation anticipated a larger park than is now
proposed by Mola -- not the entire 10.4 acres but about 6 - 7
acres. The public comments said this was a minimum amount. Mola
has given the community a "second bite at the apple" -- this is a
good development. The public is speaking in a single voice about
Gum Grove Park and I would second your (KNAPP's) recommendation
that a message be sent to the City Council that Gum Grove be
retained at the very least at 6.8 acres. If the golf course
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Page 13 - EQCB Meeting of August 16, 1988 - Minutes
could be reconfigure or their housing density reduced so that the
Park could be increased, that the Council should do that.
Development is somewhat inevitable the community could
stagnate and die without development. A second look at the
density issue would be appropriate (to avoid wall-to-wall cars
and people).
GAVLICK: Mola has the community at heart and is bending over
backward to do a nice project for the City.
EISENBERG: We made a mistake last year that has nothing to do
wi th Mola. I made a motion at that meeting last year that we
leave it up to the City Council to determine what the mitigation
measure would be. We left the decision to our elected
representatives believing they would act on our behalf. I felt
it was beyond our scope of our responsibility to do other than to
recommend to our elected representatives ... what we are seeing
a year later ... the City Council rejected a dedicated park.
We made a mistake in not telling them exactly what we wanted.
You can't mitigate Gum Grove Park with the golf course; that's
still the case. The people here want a wilderness park.
KOLB: I'd like to see those stakes; let's go out and see the
project myself. Let's do a little homework.
KNAPP: We don't have the luxury of time. Meetings are already
scheduled.
* * *
FIRST MOTION
MOTION BY: Eisenberg
SECOND BY: Failed for lack of a second
(Chair should not second said Mr. Knight)
EISENBERG - MOTION that the EQCBA (sic) recommend to the City
Council that by virtue of the wetlands mitigation measure, which
is brought to our attention, that we find the reduction in the
Gum Grove portion of the Mola Development to be unacceptable.
That it is not satisfactory mitigation of the loss of
environmental quality to our community which will result. We
strongly urge that the City Council reconsider its prior
decision, that we believe the Gum Grove area should be a
dedicated park and operated by the City. And that it be restored
to as near its total original acreage as can reasonably be
feasible within the reconfigure plans of Mola, the Coastal
Commission, and the various commissions. The City Council
reconsider the Gum Grove Park, that it be made a dedicated park,
that it be integrated with the wetlands with the correct type or
trees.
* * *
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. Page 14 - EQCB Meeting of August 16, 1988 - Minutes
FORTNER: This is what led me not to second the first motion.
I'm concerned about this Board recommending to the Council that
the City undertake the finances, liability and maintenance of the
park. I think this is the developer's responsibility because
it's a revenue-producer. The City cannot afford from its general
fund to maintain the park. I'm concerned about a one-shot
recommendation regarding the existing boundaries of the park.
The City should take this as a dedicated park. They should
retain as much of the 10.4 acres (as possible) but no less than
6. 8 ( acres). I WOULD ACCEPT THIS AS AN AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION.
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EISENBERG: Can anyone help us with the "dedicated park" versus
the Mola issue?
EVANS: Right now you have a piece of private property for which
the owner has seen fit to allow the City to utilize as a park.
It was under a lease that expired a number of years ago. It is
under a month-to-month lease right now. The City has the
obligation to fence it (which they have) and keep the gate locked
during the evening hours (which I don't know if they always do)
and to maintain it and pay the property taxes on it. That's the
only thing that exists out there today. When Mola first came to
the City they offered the park as a dedicated park. We made an
offer to the City to layout the 6.8 acres and said this will be
the limits of what will be a future public park. We also tried
to get some parkland credit. The lease says (to the City) if you
want this land you can have it but you have to pay for it. In
1979 the City Council signed this lease that states that if the
City takes any action whatsoever (like condemnation ...) that the
City automatically has to buy the land by the existing lease. We
had offered to give the land to the City. But at the same time
the City Council was looking at do we give Mola Development some
parkland credit because there's value to that park. Because we
were looking at the value of the park and wanted parkland credit
as well. I believe the Parks & Recreation Department looked at
it and I don't believe they felt that there was a value to the
park as far as a "fee credit" type deal... but at the time the
hearings were before the City Council it was determined at that
time that the City did not want to accept the liability.
KNAPP: Mr. Evans, when you say "dedicated park" do you mean that
Mola would give the land to the city and the City would maintain
it?
EVANS: Yes.
maintain.
We offered it to be a park that the City would
KNAPP: When we hear the word "dedicated" we're asking the
developer to provide us with a park and a golf course because
they're getting a development of houses.
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Page 15 - EQCB Meeting of August l6, 1988 - Minutes
EVANS: Right now you do not have a public park. The people who
go down there are trespassing outside of Gum Grove Park. The
Hellmans would never enforce ... people going down there... you
have a month-to-month lease in Gum Grove Park right now. If the
Hellmans chose (for whatever reason) that they didn't like the
way the fencing was being maintained or the park etc., or if the
Hellmans felt there was some perceived liability they could yank
that. That was one of the things that Mola was trying to bring
out --- you don't have a public park and Mola was willing to
provide you with a public park.
Regarding the staking --- I told my engineers not to stake the
property lines because I didn't want any homeowners on Crestview
excited about the fact that they have encroached upon the Hellman
property. We are posi ti ve that some of the homeowners have
encroached upon the Hellman property. Some homeowners are aware
of this and some are not aware of it. If we do not need any of
the property where the homeowners have encroached upon the
Hellman land we are acquiring, we are not going to require them
to move fences. We have staked the property lines -- only where
the tree line would be on our new project. Keep that in mind
when you look at the staked areas. If an area looks more narrow
that what you see behind you there it's probably because a
current homeowner has .... Some homeowners have extended their
rear yards into the 10.4 acres of Gum Grove Park, have extended
their homes where the wetlands would be. We are not planning on
taking any of that land away unless it were needed for the
wetlands restoration or to put back in the Gum Grove Park. We
were asked to go out there and asked to stake out the Park by the
City because they didn't have the manpower to do it.
RISNER: Reported she has requested the City Engineer to do the
staking, not just Mola.
* * *
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Page 16 - EQCB Meeting of August l6, 1988 - Minutes
SECOND MOTION
MOTION by Eisenberg
SECOND by Fortner
VOTE: MOTION CARRIED 4 TO 0; KOLB ABSTAINED
Mr. Eisenberg: "I'm going to try this (motion) in a number of
statements and see if we have consensus among us as to whether
these statements are correct."
I. That we recommend that Gum Grove be established as a public
park without any language of dedication.
2. That we feel it's an environmental necessity to have Gum
Grove established as a pUblic park.
3. That we feel that 4.7 acres is too small for the Gum Grove
Park.
4. We believe the 6. ~ acres, which was the original amount
addressed from this Board for Gum Grove Park is a minimum.
5.
We would legally like to see Gum Grove Park be as large as
it can possibly be.
6. We strongly urge that they reconsider the issue of Gum Grove
Park. .
* * *
ADJOURNMENT
By unanimous consent of the EQCB, the meeting was adjourned at
10:35 p.m.
THESE MINUTES WERE TRANSCRIBED FROM A TAPE; SECRETARY DID NOT
ATTEND THIS MEETING.
THESE MINUTES ARE TENTATIVE, SUBJECT TO APPROVAL BY THE
ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY CONTROL BOARD.
Respectfully Submmitted,
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00--. ~~"Y'""'l c..- _
J an Fillmann
secretary, Department of Development Services
MINUTES APPROVED ON
1988. (initial)____
4TTA(!J.I He-A.) T
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August 12, 1988
MEMORANDUM
TO: Environmental Quality Control Members
FROM: Department of Development Services
SUBJECT: Hellman Specific Plan Modifications
BACKGROUND
The amended Hellman Specific Plan was adopted by the City of Seal
Beach on December 7, 1987 by the City Council. A series of
mitigative measures were adopted as conditions of approval to the
project, and were incorporated into the specific plan document.
.
The mitigation measures cover a wide variety of areas, with
jurisdiction responsibility for implementation by not only the
Ci ty of Seal Beach, but also other agencies. Due to the fact
that a portion of the site has the characteristics of wetlands
tidal influence, a Section 1600 agreement from the California
Department of Fish and Game and Section 404 permit from the Army
Corps of Engineers is needed. Al though the City conditioned
project approval upon the accomplishment of appropriate permits
and agreements from these agencies, it is the authority of these
agencies to determine whether the permits and agreements shall be
issued. The City of Seal Beach has no authority over the scope,
location, or approval of the wetlands.
Since the approval of the Specific Plan, the developer, Mola
Development, has been meeting with representatives of the Corps
of Engineers and California Fish and Game to reach agreement
regarding on-site wetlands. In July of this year, a tentative
agreement calling for the reconstruction of approximately twenty
(20) acres of wetlands located in the southwest corner of the
project site was reached. The Coastal Commission requested that
the City of Seal Beach process the changes to the approved
specific plan to account for the wetlands inclusion prior to
consideration be by the Commission.
PROJECT STATU$
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The purpose of an Environmental Impact Report is to provide
pUblic agencies and the public in general with information about
the effect which a proposed project is likely to have on the
environment: to list ways in which the significant effects of
such a project might be minimized: and to indicate alternatives
to such a project. The EIR for the Hellman Specific Plan is
considered a program EIR, which covers the implementation of a
series of actions related to a given project. Subsequent actions
are reviewed in context to the information provided in the
program EIR. If the action is consistent with the discussion and
mitigation measures proposed in the program EIR, then no further
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August 12, 1988
HELLMAN SPECIFIC PLAN MODIFICATIONS
Page 2
documentation is needed and the action can be approved within the
scope of the program EIR.
The EIR for the Hellman Specific Plan contains a discussion of
on-si te wetlands, identifying the flora and faunal associated
with the marshland brackish channel, and the alkaline flats. It
provides a discussion of the project impacts and identifies that
approximately twenty (20) acres of the 147 acres project site may
constitute existing wetlands. The EIR proposes mitigation
measures requiring that the developer seek approval from Fish and
Game and the Corps of Engineers.
In keeping with the authority of these agencies, they are
requiring that twenty (20) acres of restored wetlands be located
in the southwest corner. The wetlands will replace the purposed
golf course in this area, reducing the size of the golf course by
twenty acres. The change from golf course to wetlands is not
considered a significant environmental impact to the project,
since the use of wetlands was proposed and discussed in the EIR,
and the implementation of the adopted mitigation measures could
very well had resulted in the inclusion of wetlands in the site.
The wetlands is replacing, another open space use of the site,
and although this action creates an impact to the challenge or
level of difficulty of the golf course, this is not an
environmental impact.
RELATED PROJECT ANALYSIS
The inclusion of the wetlands creates other minor impacts to the
project along with the reduction in golf course acreage. As a
result of the redesign due to the wetlands, a portion of
condominium development will be closer to the existing homes
located adjacent to the project. The previous plan showed that
the closest point between the condominiums and the property line
of a hill residence was approximately 280 feet. That figures has
been reduced to approximately 196 feet, a reduction of 84 feet.
While this represents an incremental reduction, staff does not
consider this a significant impact, since a reasonable buffer is
still in place, which is in keeping with the General Plan
objective of maintaining a buffer between existing residences on
the hill and proposed development on Hellman property.
Another area of discussion is the on-going status of the Gum
Grove area. Gum Grove has been addressed in the EIR in two
separate locations, under Land Use (open space element) and
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August 12, 1988
HELLMAN SPECIFIC PLAN MODIFICATIONS
Page 3
biological resources. The land use mitigation measure requires
the project proponent to work with the City to develop a final
plan defining the configuration features, and jurisdictional
responsibility of Gum Grove Park. The biological Resources
section requires the applicant to remove affected trees and
stumps infected with the Eucalyptus longhorn borer. The
applicant will undertake a restoration program to remove, retain
and replace the Eucalyptus trees. The specific plan also
requires the preservation of the grove of trees and determination
of jurisdiction responsibility for the Gum Grove area.
At the precise plan level, the applicant is responsible for
submitting plans for restoration and development of the Gum Grove
area. Although no acreage figures devoted to the grove area were
given in the EIR or specific plan, general discussion during the
hearings process showed that the applicant could preserve up to
6.5 acres for the grove area. During the hearing process, it was
determined by the City Council that the grove area would not be a
publicly owned park, but preserved with a trail system developed
and open to the general public. Public easement conditioned
through the subdivision process will assure continued use by the
public.
The current park area leased by the City of Seal Beach is an area
totaling 10.4 acres, which includes the parking lot, level areas
adjoining the grove, and the grove area. The actual grove area
is approximately 5.8 acres.
The project proponent is proposing to set aside approximately 4.7
acres of the grove area for the restoration and preservation,
with a public access trail system and improvements throughout the
grove area. This 4.7 acres constitutes existing grove area, and
areas that are part of the park area, but currently have no
existing trees. Of the 5.8 acres of trees, approximately 2.0
acres will be removed. The applicant will be responsible for
replacing diseased trees and trees removed due to the golf course
on a one-by-one basis. Replacement trees will be at a ratio of
species trees, twenty-four (24) inch box trees, and fifteen (15)
gallon trees. The restored grove will be a combination of
approximately 3.8 acres of existing trees (after removal of
diseased trees) and new plantings.
..... :'
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4It August 12, 1988
HELLMAN SPECIFIC PLAN MODIFICATIONS
Page 4
Along with this report, the minutes of the EQCB meetings
regarding the Hellman Specific Plan, and the adopted mitigation
measures.
FOR: August 16, 1988
fdlmJGt uQ .~
Edward M. Knight
Director of Development Services
EMK: jf
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NOTICE OF MEETING
The Environmental Quality Control Board will be meeting on
August 16, 1988, at 8:00 P.M. in city Council Chambers,
to discuss the proposed amendments to the Hellman specific Plan
as a result of the inclusion of approximately twenty (20) acres
of land devoted to wetlands.
Dated: August 8, 1988
("'n'rdirt l' () v::~ ~
~d M. Kn~~
Director
Development Services Department
City of Seal Beach