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HomeMy WebLinkAboutRDA Min 1971-10-04 n ______J ~~~. 10-4-71 , 1~7 I ,____", 1....-- . Sea 1 ,Beach, Cali forni a October 4, 1971 I The Redevelopment Agency of the City of Seal Beach met in regular session in Council Chambers at 7:40 p.m. with Chairman Covin~ton calling the meetin~ to order with the S~lut~ .0 the Flag. . ROLL CALL Present: Absent: Vacancy: A1 so ~resent: Chairman Covington Agency f'lembers Jackson, L indstl'om r'1rs. Scheiblauer (arrived' at 8:25 p.m.) One Executi ve Director/Secretary ~lyers and r,lrs. !-Ieir APPROVAL OF MINUTES Linds~rom moved, second by Covington, 'to appl'ove the minutes of September 20, 1971 as presented. , , " Lindstrom, Covington Jack.son Scheiblauer 'AYES: ABSTAIll : ABSENT: I Discussion followed regarding whether the minutp.~ could be approved tlith less than three affirmative votes. t'll'. r.wers stated that he \'!ou~d check into.it and bring them back if necessary. :1 REPORT - Executive Directol' fir. r'Wers reported .that the Southern PiJcific Land Company had advised that the appraisal for the r. E. Rig,ht of Hay \~ould be , available no earlier than October 22, 1971. ...... Mr. Hyers reported that the City Council had passed first reading , on Ordinance l-!umbl':r 860 and presented' copies of same to the Agency membcrs. Ordinance rlumber 8GO names the Citv Council as the Redeve 1 opmcnt flgency of Seal Beach. . . Chairman Covington requested information relating to the requirements of the Redevelopment Law as it pertains to Ordinance Number BGC1. t.lr. Hyers exp 1 a i ned the normal procedures for the adoption of Ordinances. Chairman Covington reviewed this procedure. Hr. L ir.dstrom stated "Therc al'e a lot of thinqs that are normal in the City of Seal Beach," and requested that this comment be entered into the minutes, and repe~ted "that are normal procedures for City Councils or public officials in the Clty." The fullowing is a word by ~/ord transcript of the' Redevelopment Agency meeting as requested by thc Agcncy men,hers. 1 Covington: I think also, for the record of our meeting, it would be appropriatc, while we're talking about this ordinance to ask t,ir. r'lyers to enter into thc mfnutes thc fact tha t \~hether 01' not the ... this proposed ordinance taking back the Redevelopment Agency to the City Council \'faS or tms not on the: Agenda as sllch for the mecting of the City Council last Friday. -- ----. .-- . -------... -......-_.~-_. -- i , 10-4-71 -.-....:;.~..lH::J:' - ,- I ..,...'0 . __ _h~ ~ . _ _.. __e_ . u ___'_ L-. '. .... ~.~ Page Two - Redevelopment Agency Minutes - October 4, 1971 Myers: There was no item on the agenda. " ., Lindstrom: Then how did it take place? I r4yers: , There ~/as an introduction of ;0" ordinance at . " , . ' the Council meeting and, it passed Lindstrom: Then legally how can then constitute the last Council meeting as a first reading...they would , have to have the first reading on the 11th, I believe. . . .No, upon the introduction of'an ordinance,that is ~1yers : -, the first reading, and they....had the first reading. Covington: Is it not required that the ordinance be on the I agenda as such without advance public notice... " that the ordinance is to be given its first . , \ I ' rea~J ngJ,__ . -- ----" - Lindstrom: I believe Jay has a point there,...if you read the I intent of the City Charter, an ordinance can be introduced at a Council meeting but it cannot be . passed upon and have its first reading.....at vested City Council meetings? And I think its a " moot point, but I know we shouldn't pursue it I~ ' , any further, but I think it should be a part of , this' record....a part of the City's records...for future reference. / . r~ers: I'wou1d just like to clarify on this, I agree, that if it is a 1egal.9!!cstion, it should be asked of the attorney....My own understanding of the Charter is that the introduction and first reading . are the same. That's something that's a legal question, that certainly, the attorney would be the one most qua1ifJed to ans\~er that. Covington: As Sven said, its a moot point, but I th~nk it helps, to clarify for future reference, the appropriate , legality' or methods 'by which th~ ordinance ~/as introduced. 14yers: ' 'It would be my opinion that it's 1ega1...or the City Attorney would not have let it happen. Lindstrom: Well its done now. As far as r can see any City Attorney can say anything until it's questioned legally. ..,then he has to have the answer or it can be taken up to a higher test in court. But I the only thing a City Council does is voice an opinion as to what's happened in Court, -- unless there is a specific paragraph in the la~, that he can quote that says that an ordinance can be introduced at a first meeting and be accepted in the first reading in this f'h'st mceting and Iv , , don't thi~k that language exists in the City Charter. l.... . ~ .. I :. '.. .. r I I , I -I.. ". .", .. Page Three - Redevelopment Minutes - October 4 i 1971 MYers: , I think that there is probably a I Lindstrom: Again, I would assume that it is only his opinion as to what is legal and what is not . legal. ~ers: , .\ CO~i~gt~n : I Hyers: I Lindstrom: Covington: .... ,. I think certainly this is one of those times that I have been asked a question by the Chairman in a discussion this afternoon - I have an obligation to both the City Council and Redevelopment Agency, so the sum of what is on your mind is, that as the Director of "tlle Redevelopment Agency, I ~id not inform you that thi s ordi nance ~/as to be cons i dered by , the City Council because it is the Council's decision to make, and I was not , instructed at any time to put it on the agenda, therefore I had no knowledge of it being introduced. . No one is certainly going to blame you for not giving ever giving members of the appropriate public concerned agencies advance notice. Its just-a question as to the legality or at least to - the ethic principles involved, in having 'an issue of suustance, involving an ordinance, not appear on the agenda of a council meeting - and then be read and acted upon' and considered the first reading when there is no opportunity for the public at large and agency members as individuals, and also representing,the agency to be present and knowledgable of the 'intent of the Council because it did nol.-so appear on the .Agenda that's my concern. ' I guess I can only - r can I t ans\'/er what obviously is political ramifications, I can only answer from a point of view of what literally can be done and the Council, as a matter of fact, can introduce an ordinance, whet~er it be a vested specific,agenda item or not and pass it as first reading when its ,introduced. They have done it in previous councils throughout history in the City. I'm sure that the City Attorney recognizes this, for it would be his responsibility to say that it could be done - that he \10u1d only be interested in the legal question.... Also, under the Charter,provisions - and this being our practically next to the last meeting, I would hope that our minutes of the next meeting are a complete in detail as our conversation - otherwise I will' not accept them. ' That's, the advantage of the mike. 10-4-71 , 1:~9 ___ _ _._ 1.:.::_. -,--- " 10-4-71 1i!O " 00 ., '. . . . . ~ O. ~ ~_... -~.-'. . . - -- - ..--'- ....-- -- " L, Page Four - Redevelopment Minutes - October 4,,1971 Lindstrom: MYers: Lindstrom: . Clerk::, ", , Jackson: Clerk:' Covington: .\ I ", Clerk: Covington: Hyers: Jackson: ...and the tape recording,- Well, its just '... And I would assume that thi~ tape is going to 'be kept and not erased. ' ' ", This tape is kept for my records only as a dictation type method, but I would be happy to put them in verbatim if that is the wish of the Agency, Mr. Chairman. ,I think they should be put in, I ..'" .. Verbatim? I agree with Sven, I don't think that perhaps as much tonight but certainly our next meeting, when we may have our great opportunity to prepare for it and to 'react to what has transpired in the next two weeks. I think it'wou1d be appropriate for everyone's sake - the members of the Agency, the n~mbers of the Council and the City, if we c~u1d have a word by word ... Transcript? Yes, closing statement if that's what it turns out to be - I think each of us may have material that we would, however valid or not, like to have preserved as a final record of our fec1ings as members of the Agency. I wou1 d 1 i ke to ask 'you,-Bob" about thi s 1 etter from the Southern Pacific Land Company - is it your understanding that immediately after the completion of the appraisa~ - the Land Company will then be prepared to sit down with the City? They didn't indicate:that they were going to require additional time to digest the appraisal figures" did they?, Did they give you the impression that there was collateral discussion and research going on ~,ithin their company - waiting only for the finalized appraised figures, to make them then eligible to i~mediately begin discussion ~/ith the City? I . , Yes, as indicated here, l'/hen the appraisal is ,received and ~lill contact you so that I~e might sit down and discuss City's possible acquisition of this property. They "haven't given me any timing on it. But I think it's - They've had, I might-.say, somc 'change, - only in the sense that they have had - only to the extent that they have had a changc in pcrsonnel - Mr. Steiner is'the gentleman whom I was in discussion with. Mr. Steiner has retired, somebody else is taking ,his pOSition. Who is Steincr ? I ", ,.-- ~ .,--- _. " I I I , '. , 10-4-71 _ ____ ._____ 0... ~ ttL " . Page Five - Redevelopment Minutes - Octobe~ 4, 1971 Myers: ' Covington: Myers: . . . He was the Chief of their real estate division. That explains why he failed to call us. , . ' Well, I called him, as a matter of fact, and tried to have a discussion and apparently they were in some throes of change at that point. So, I haven't been able to talk with who is " supposedly his replacement. All I know is that we have an understanding, not only with Mr. Steiner, but l'/ith a ~lr. Stacey l'lho has been ~/ith ~hem, and communications are that they are following up .... . Covington: '\ I ,I , , They,a1so indicate, Bob, that it will be no later than - but possibly prior to October 22nd and I wonder what other members of the Agency would consider appropriate to instruct you to contact' them again, prior to October 22nd, say, within'the next week or so - trying to establish a meeting day as soon after October 22nd or what- ever date prior that they reccive the appraisal if possible. So that negotiations could begin actively and perhaps with the greatest amount of, speed that- 1'/ou1d be appropriate. As normally constituted, the Agency must still have two meetings, the last one of this month and first one for November, and of course, if necessary I ': ...,;:,'imagine we could also hold or-schedule a special , ~eting or b/o if negotiations had pI'ogressed satisfactorily enough so that any type of arrangement or contra~~c~uld be arranged. . Lindstrom: I would go one step further. I would ask the . City Manager with the approval of the Agency that he inform us immediately upon'the receipt of the assessment, so that we could schedule a special meeting at the earliest possible date, even if it is prior to the 22nd. , I would like to leave a scheduled pr special 'meeting open in this agenda - ,in the minutes of this meeting. ' I realize, Sven, that the letter really isn't clear, but I think that they're,referring to the figures available to them, not available to us. Well, to us, with our meeting with them, but we don't receive it earlicr than they do - they 'receive it, then would be prepared to notify us thereafter. What we are intcrested in doing is having you take the initiative and not wait until they contact you, which might be a week after they receive it.' But instead made them awarc of your interest in meeting with them as soon as possible 'immediately upon thcir receipt of the figures. Covington: . __._____ a_ __ _--- _ ~_ . -- .. .. . - - -- _ _~ _ ___ ___ __ _ __a _____.~.__ __... -_a_..C"'-. , - . 10-4-71 -..s -..,. 4"2-----' I I ---- - -- ..----... - ~age Six - Redevelopment Minutes - October 4, 1971 Jackson: . ' . . l-Iyers: . < .I I , cTrygt~n:, . ~ers: " I . . " Lindstrom: . ...... , Bob, let me ask you a question - the timing of" the letter advisin9 of the appraisal, say now October' 22nd and the fact that now the Agency is now going to be take~ ~ack to '- assume there is ,no trouble next week - for t~,t resolution to be effective - is there anything we can do.at this point to commit the Agency, therefore the City, in buying this, land - or is this already . pretty well Right at this point, it is my underatanding that the pQ1icy that the Redevelopment Agency ~ubmitted to the Council and was pas~ed by. the Council would be a natural follow-up by either the Councilor this Agency - unless there is, of course, a direct change in that course. I've had no discussion with City Council referring to any change. It is the prjme responsibility, the Agency is committed to it, its plan was accepted and therefore passed and approved by the City Council and upon availability of the figure and willing- ness of Southern Pacific under negotiations the Agency can continue as they originally intended and have been given approval to do so. At this point, of course, the Agency, if the ordinance change doesn't do anything for the Agency's policy, at this point. If there is a c~ange in the policy it is because of the new ,;-members'beiilg the Agency Board, that is some- thing that I can't anst~r, 'Now I know what happened in the past - that the control change is going to continue to be the same policy and naturally we are going to proceed on that basis until there is a policy change. With one exception, as an Agency member I'm not naive~ enough to believe that the City CQunci1 cannot change the policy that has been e~tab1ished 'in the past at another meeting just like they adopted an ordinance at the same meeting without ,pub 1 i c noti fi cati on in the agenda" So therefore, I would assume at the earliest possible moment the City Council is going to adopt another emergency ordinance changing the policy of the Agency to suit their fancy - ~/hether it be directed and subverted by Modular Technology, Inc. or some other developer that wants to get his hands on the P. E. Right of Way or any other Development Agency property. It has ,already been proven and it is a matter of record - public record - that one of the Vice Presidents of j-lodular Technology backed 11r. Dunn and Mr. Dunn suddenly wound up on the Planning Commission and I don't sit here as one member naive enough to believe, that they are not already working tOI~ard this end. I ' I --~- I .~ '. " I. I! r-'" " ---------- I , < , I I , . -., 10-4-71 ., L1.3' L.. - - -----'-----'---:-----';:-n-- Page Seven - Redevelopment Minutes - October 4, 1971 Mye~s: , Covington: ,I '\ ! \ '/ I MYers: . Covington: I ~1yers : 'Covington: Myers: . , ~ I am only answering from the viewpoint of the Administrat,ion 11ith the policy that ~/e have that you have the political function of policy - I think that professional integrity ,is required when policy is est~hlish&d whether we agree or disagree - but I follow that at this point - the policy is estab- lished and then followed and I will continue to do so unless it is changed and that is something that you as individuals or Board members or whatever would take up with the - whoever.... ~s a member. of the Agency I am satisfied with the , policy that we have adopted as you point out - 'what is approved by the Council and under which tle presently act, and lets just hope that there is an adequate amount of time between - prior to October 22 and November 10 - but I don't think that we have to go through any type of formal action her~ for you to realize, Bob, that - hmi , we feel as the Board. .~~;: " . You l'/ant to be informed - as to 11hen lie get this appraisal - and then you will tell me what you want me to do - , Well, even more than that' - I think that ~Ie are anxious to have you perhaps assume some responsibility for the initiative on thi's - in other words - try to be aware.through contacts periodically with Southern Pacific prior to oCtober 22, as to ~/hen they have received that figure and to make them,J~\'/are of our interests in beginning negotiations aS'soon as possible after they have received that appraisal figure. Yes " Rather than say, maybe, if for example, we receive it by the 20th which liould only pe t~/O days earlier than your maximum deadline and that wuld give us three solid l'/eeks ,if l'/e had the opportunity to start immediately tO~lard ,negotiations and towards a deal for the property prior to our demise. and that one I think would be working towards ~ that all of us would feel that we had - to the best of our ability - satisfied the responsibility that we jointly assume by ourselves and the City Council. I "ill keep you informed - I think you appreciate, hmiever, that the Pacific Land Company is going to know what the situation is and will be between the City' Council and their position on the Redevelopment Agency - it might be very 1il:e1y that they say - ~lyers lie' re not goi ng to talk to you at all because lie knOl'1 that there is a change an~ its going to be the City Council - and ~/e kno~1 ~/e're going to be deal l'/ith the City Council, and we're not going to be willing to talk befnre that change is made. r- ' " 1 ~4 10-~-t-.. ___ __ ..- - ----- ----~- -- ------ , " r _,__ ,___.__ _ .L__ . .' . J :"~ " ".\ . . ~ . . Page Eight - Redevelopment Minutes - October 4; 1971 , . Lindstrom: I have a comment to make - from ~/hat r1r. r'lyers . has said I don't doubt his ,integrity - the City Nanager one bit -- hOl1ever, I do fi nd him in a position. I accused the former City Council of being in , that you cannot operate in support,of the City Council nor can he operate supporting the Redevelopment Agency because they are two different entities and again we get into the conflict of legal ethics -- We get into being a ,two headed monster - neither onc of them can take the same path and there is always bound ..', to be a split.- ' If there is any doubt at all created by this I would be happy to write the letter for ~lr. Covington"s signature - that "/ay he ~/ould know that the mail \'/aS going out and would knOl'1 what thc ans~lers ~/ould be. Lindstrom: ~ers: . . " . ... . ~ Covington: .\ . ,Jackson: '. ~ers: Lindstrom: Covington: Hyers: . -." Linilstrom: Let's get it'in writin9. I. <; My point in ~hat is - obviously you know my position, I'm being above-board about it with 'both you and the Council and ~...i Redeve10pIRent Agency -- so that you will know that I am not administratively pursuing a policy that is different than what exists right now - I will do that diligently, just as the directions in the past, every two weeks or a month. I called these people, saying. when is this appraisal 90in9 ~o be?, Well, I think that is what we are specifically asking you now, so that the record is established that ~/e have asked you to do this and in your capacity as our Director-Secretary you can then proceed to do it on the basis that you and I will interpret that action as the result of the , specific request from the Agency. ' '. ' ." That would also mean that any response received, even should it prove negative, hopefully positive from Southern Pacific would similarly be a matter of record preferrably one of letter, so that again the Agency members individually or the Agency as a whole as presently constituted would have a spec1fic record to document every effor~ they had made in behalf of trying to c~rry out the policy whi1~ they were still in existence in their present form. Do you agree with that now ? . I Yes, I do. ---.----: . ., r I think that would be a very good idea at this point in time. That might protect our Executive Director. I Don't think pf protection for me, because my integrity - I have no doubts about -- if there's some doubts about it, I suggest that --- I don't doubt -- 11hat I am saying has happened in the past -- I sat out in many Council meetings -r:=--";,,, I '" I I . ~ 0.. . page Nine - Redevelopment l'linutes - October 4, ,197.1 . .\ I \ ,- Myers :. Lindstrom: . Jackson: Covi,ngton: \ . and accused Mr. Gummere and the rest of the City Council which constituted at that time - Stan Anderson and the rest of them -- of being two headed monsters -- how could they sit as the Redeve10pmcnt Agenr" ,and the City Council and pull everything in before a regular Council meeting and Redevelopment Agency Meeting and the public wasn't informed - minutes were never posted -- agendas were never posted -- but yet R & B Development went in -- Suburbia development went in -- and then tax monies were divcrted. Yet they sat at a tity Counci~ meeting and did a lot of other things -- but thcy were devoting a heck of a lot of time behind the scenes to the Redevel- opment Agency -- and a lot of the thin gs they did. I think were kind of shaky legally but at the time they had a City Attorney who was voicing opinions again -- and no one ever took them to court. ~lc11, is it the Boards desire then to have the Chairman sign it, so that --- it's perfect? I would so move. I'll second it. AYES: NOES: ABSEfIT: , VACAHCY: Covington, Jackson, None Scheib1auer Dne Lindstrom -........~_. 140tion carri ed. . Well, if that finishes your report, Bob, the next item will be Unfinished Business. Part of the unfinished business was the South~rn Pacific letter... If there' is nothing on unfinished business, then we come to new business and I have something that I would like to bring up under new business -- I wOnder \~lat the othcr members of the agency ~rould feel as to the appropriateness, in light of the Ordinance that has becn passed by the Council, if some type of communication from the Agcncy to the Counci 1 shou1 d be \~ri tten, the working of which would -- in refined form -- ask the Council that, upon v,oting, should they so vote, take back the I\gency, there ~/ou1d be a restatement by the indi.vidua1 members of the ' Council as to the policy that they \'/ou1d follow as also Agency members so that the public at large and the Agency as' presently constituted would have an opportunity again to make public record as to what policy the Agency would be directed. 10-4-71 1//1:5 _ __ L...:: --1-- I " 1 Ll6 1~-:-7.I'~ " ,.. __ ____ ,__ _,___....1-- ~.' ...... . Page Ten - Redevelopment Minutes - October 4, 1971 Lindstrom: ,. . . I Covington: MYers: I I ,I I Covington: ; . ~1yers : Covi ngton: " ~1yers : , Lindstrom: Covington: Hyers: Lindstrom: . ..... f4yers: ~ I would second that --- with the comment that' this be a CouncJ1 agenda item and we request th~t it be a Council agenda item -- and not just a communication for the next meeting of October 11 and that the Executive Director "and Secretary compose this anu hand it in to the Council for the Council agenda before noon on Wednesday If we were to send such a request, Bob, would it not automatically become part of the Agenda for discussion rather than one of the ~tems for collective action? Simu1taneous1y-- "'. .... - -. ... I ~ It wouldn't be Consent Calendar - it would be a,communication from the Redevelopment Agency for discussion. ' A reiteration of the policy for the Agency since it now will be comprised of the City Councilmen -- whose decisions are not individually known to the same degree that the decisions of the present agency members are and who will no longer have their --- limited credition -- though they are responsible for involving Agency business... As an Agenda item, undouhtedly under written communications from the Redevelopment Agency to the Council for next meeti~g for discussion a~4 your letter would be included in the agenda. I don't really think_its probably necessary to have a special meeting-ro'see,it -- if you were able to get it draf:ted 01' put together . in the next day or two'-- whi1 everyone was still vocal on the plan --'they would have an opportunity to look it over and made individual modifications until it met the consensus of the Agency~ ~1y understanding is that you ar~ making a request for the CouncJl to reiterate or explain any changes in,existing policy. Individually..... ' To reaffirm individually, their concurrence with the existing policy of the Agency as they then take it back or 'the differences from that policy, as they feel at the time the agency, as presently constituted, reels it has a respon- sibility for the benefit of the puh1ic for which we serve --- that the policy as presently constituted should be reaffirmed individually or \there there are differences -- it is so stated. ' I I, Would i't be acceptable for me to ,.,rite that, you look at it as the Chairman -- for your signature? When does tha~' have to, be in? Wednesday? Yes, it has to be Wednesday noon, but of course, . . - .---7" I " I I' ,I I 4--. _.. . _ _ _" ._________ ___ ___---.. 10-4-71 1f1.? " . ,Page Eleven - ~edeve1opment r~inutes - 'October 4, 1971' " :" ;:,:, :JUU'have satisfied that with your request right now. Lindstrom: . Covington: .\ \ , ,. Lindstrom: Coyington: \ ~ers: Covington: Lindstrom: Covington: Lindstrom: '. , Let 'me say a few words here -- 'I think that .you are asking the Council to .~iterate -- fndividually and collectively ~- their approval of a policy previously accepted by the City Council. r blow the fact that there are,-- that the Council is now going to sit a~ the Agency 'ftse~f -- and also in light of the fact that ther.e have been personnel changes in the comp~exion of the Council as constituted since the last time -~ since the meeting in ~. ,-- June I ,guess it was -- June when they approved the Agency policy as presented to them. Be sure and use the word public interest because I am 'sure they will ask the reason we are malt::i'ng this request. ~Je no longer have the oPPD'rtuni ty to represent the pub 1 i c i nteres t pe~aps our final act of responsibility would be ~o see that the public is infonned as to what the Agency will be directed in the future. You might also, have, Jay, this posted in the liGJr.a:ry along with the City Council agenda CIS the full text of our request. . .....-' T.~ .on~y thing is --- I think that I s a good idea. Sven, but I thinK-as, a matter of nonma1 courtest - all communications to the Council are not publicized until the Council hCls . bad the opportunity to act upon them, is this not ~rue ? . lhe Agenda goes to the library and is posted, but the individual letters and so forth" first are transmitted to the Council. 1 wli1d hope that if it ~/e're in the interest. the public in this particular item. its presence on the agenda would suffice. I certainly feel that ~/e should respect procedura1'privi1p.ges. I think it is a great idea. Sven, but I don't think it is possible. Other letters to the Council seem to get posted -- but only those. that the Council wants posted. ' We certainly \'/ilnt to be'above suspicion of any of ~hat for sure. And [ hope that everyone of my comments is recorded and noted in the minutes. .. -'--r;- I 1.1.8 10-4-71\ ,) kt-,-' ' ,~ - ._-- ---_._.- ----- " , , L...- . "', ~. " , Page T~/e1ve - Redevelopment Minutes.,;" October ~, ,1971, " , , Covington~ Clerk: .. , Covington: , Lindstrom: " " r .\ \ . Covington: , ., , Is the tape still wor~ing ? Yes sir, it seems to be. Any other items under new b4siness ? . 'I ... .~. :", . I have one -- I think that we should have one - in regards to Ordinance Number 860, another special meeting -- to sit down and give the City Council reasons why ~re don't think the City Council should be constituted as.the Redevelopment Agency -- that it should be a .Board of resident electors whether it is ourselves or not. For the simple reason th~t- we're still saying, regardless of what the current City Attorney might say --- that there is a conflict of legal ethics, because even our ~.~ Agency attorney, Mr. Jacobs, has said in the past that the door is still there, its wide open for it because even though he doesn't think it might happen, the possibility is still there -- I think the City wants to remain healthy and without any legal conf1ict,long council meetings, lona Planning Commission meetings, extra expense"of setting up school microphones and everything else -- it might behoove us to give the new City Council' reasons why the old City Council suddenly decided to turn over the Agency to city electors. State law very prudently states that any city over 250,000 people have to have a Redevelopment Agency of 'electors. But in the case of a beach town, the dollar value difference between an inland city of 250,000 and a beach toWn"with say 35,000, might really legally constitute the reason why citizen . electors should be the Redevelopment Agency. Because we have problems that bring people in from outer cities that don't normally happen' in other cities. And again its a moot point, but I think that we, as agency members, cou~ d' come up with some very good reasons to refute the City, Co~nci1 action. . Well, I think that while your points are well 'taken, Sven, I think the key phrase to me is the one as individual agency members --- I don't know how I would feel about the Agency as as tlho1e sending a communication to the Council spelling out ~-- all the valid reasons that we ,should remain as we are and they should not do I~hat tliey have indicated they plan to do with this Redevelopment AgenCy, however, I think that each of us lndividually vli11 still be members of the Agency. lIext Nonday night at the council. meeting should hopefully very effectively get up and as individuals present any cogent arguments -- as to why the Agency should remain constituted a it does now. But on a basis as individuals, perhap!r not as the Agency. I wonder if that isn't just knowing that this doesn't appear to be too self-serving in terms of trying to maintain the Agency by use of the Agency powers---of course, in a w~y---it's a hard thing to reconcile. 1 I' '[--: I ~ I, I , " '. , . " Page Thirteen - Rtel!Ieve10pment t~inutes - October: 4, 1971. .\ LiAdit~om: I . Covington: ~1yers : : , Scheib1auer: t<1yers : Scheib1auer: Covington: The Agency is presently constituted as made up of 1,ay citizens who serve the public -- it is appai'nted -- ~/e'\1ere appointed by the City Coumci1. All final governmental powers in the ,City rest with the City Council, .. Theme are many reasons why I personally feel the ,~gency as presently constituted should cOllUnue to exist in this \1ay. I can certainly see the logic for some of the arguments presented in favor of it being taken ba~ by the City Council. ~1y personal feeling 1's; t:hat those are not as strong as the ones in favor of letting it remain as it is. But I , waRder whether we do the Agency and the public ~ucb :good if we try to present these arguments as Endorsed by the Agency as a whole rather th~ on the basis of individual members of the A!Blcy. , Wen" there are.certain facits of the " Redewelopment Law that the intent -- the intent of ~be law as we interpret it -- The intent of tlie ~a~1 would, I think, show that the City Council cooHI very easily jeopardize their 0\''" position as i8 1egis~ative body and the Redevelopment lIg'ftlcy. r ~dnk you're right, I think there are ~ery s.trong arguments that could be presented by a", :i,ndividua1 citizen, not just as a member o~ ~he Agency, but I really question whether our 'objectivity wouldLnot be suspect, no matter hmw sincerely the Agencll"as a ,whole felt -- If riEl' \Would present these arguments as endorsed by the ,~gency, our objectivity \10uld just have to ~e questioned. I may be wrong. ~lr,_ ,Chairman, if I might, in as much as t,'rs. Schedb1auer just arrived, and I don't think you're used to this system yet -- you can either unhook ,tha~ and put it around your neck or you can clip iit 'W your lapel -- there is a little clip on the s,ite there -- whi chever is more conveni ent. Can ,you hear me ? I v6'B1 turn it on and you can give it a test. CaD ,you hear me now ? GoocII.. BOD. it is almost impossible to recapitulate a'll'I the things that have already !lone on -- ~Ihat ~/e ar.e talking about nO~/, I believe, is the r.e:l,a.tive merits of any position being taken by tbi! J\genc'y as a ~lho1e that could be relayed to the ,City 'Council as to why the Agency should coo:tinue to-sit as constituted rather than be --i"evert back and administered by the City COI17ncil. I think Sven, Hr. Lindstrom, is in . 10-4-71 "'l'j' :t.tiiQ..- ~ r-' ~30 I ~~4-7t -- ---- -- ------ -- . ~...... . " , ~age Fourteen Redevelopment r'linutes '- October. 4, 1971: - ~ Lindstrom: -- . . . . .\ I \ . Jackson: " , ~ \ , Covington: '-' 11yers: Covington: . ,.... favor of perhaps the Agency as a whole; am I right ?? ' Hell, endorsing certain facts of the Redeve10p- ,ment Law that pertain to the ~~",y, tile fact of Seal ~each being a beach to\~n catering'to . outside cities, the law is very prudently stated t~at any city of 25Q,OOO or more should be constituted by elected citizens. Now an inland city of 250,000, the Redevelopment portion of that city could be very small in dollar value whereas a city of 35,000 along'the coast could have three 'times that dollar value and really when you get .. ", , down to cases, I don't really think that population really has that much to do with what is --- should be done for the City. I think it 'all boils down to dollar value and taxes and we are working with diverted tax funds. These diverted tax funds -- Now who can benefit from these tax funds. The general pub1i,c or private developers - \'Ihatever sounds best. And these are the two major points that I think that the Agency as a whole are collectively in agreement on from the very beginning. I wonder if perhaps well, -- perhaps we ought tO,hear from Dr. Jackson --.to share in. this point. Well, I'fee1 that the Agency getting together to di scUss ~/hy the Agency shou1 dn' t be taken back to the Council -- however redundant, but we as il1dividuals certainly can do that at the meeting. , I think it might be well ~lOrth~/hi1e to have a meeting to discuss in-d~tai1 what we have learned during the last year and \~hat our feelings are as to how the Agency can best serve the people of Seal Beach. ~!hen ~/e did that back in June, I suspect we could at this 'point in time, add a little bit to that. We have been here quite a long time - in time and effort - yet trying t9 assess what the Agency can do for the people here. -- what is profitable -- perhaps what should be or shouldn't be. I feel that i~ might be well worthwhile to, devote an entire meeting, perhaps, ,a s~ecial meeting. to that subject. You mean a meeting other than the one that would normally occur two weeks from tonight? Mr. Chairman, if I might, there may be some assumptions that you are making that may not prove to be what the resp1ts are, and that is. maybe the City Council policy is very similar to what the, or ~/ill continue to be very similar to the' one ..... Bob, no, I am not making an assumption -- I am a little bit afraid that our year of learning and effor~ in this has not been as well documented as it could be. - ,.-., - -- .- - - .. :_ ___ L ~ .' I ~ " I I I I I I I 'r~ . , -; I I' , - 10-4-71 t,j.if:,~ Page Fifteen Redevelopment Minutes October 4, 1971 I would say that I was probably unclear .- I was probably not re1ating.~1.Y own mistake,..of the year --- I was thinking more in terms of if, ' yo~r meeting, or if you're concerned for your own po1icy,maybe say, after the Council has met, and they have answered the question that you are compounding to them, as far as what the' policy is going to be, it would give you perhaps a better opportunity to, as individual members, or the Board, to express th~n,what your views are and I certainly agree, since I have been here anyway, that you have learned a great deal and you have responded to ~1hat seems to be the policy. Because the Council, when fO~/arded to them, didn't oppose that policy, you have done a great deal of work and your value is as you carried it out, has really been a lot of effort. , . As.you point out Bob, then at our noxt meeting we would have the advantage of the feed-back--- the response by the Council to our request that they're in keeping --- we could then, at our next meeting prepare our final legacy -- of what had happened since our last policy statement and had modified it or enhanced it or increased it's scope. , 'Scheiblauer: Is the next Council meeting a week from tonight? Covington: Covington: Yes, that is second reading of 860 --- I wonder, Bob, if with the other members of the A~ency here , thfnk of a request to you - both for the benefit of the City Council n~xt Monday in consideration with our letter, and also 'for the benefit of the individual members of the Agency I.rho may be present next Monday night at the ~ounci1 meeting if there is any source available that without too much difficulty for the staff, would permit preparation of a document that would give us amongst other things, the individual 'Redeve1opment ''__Agency's, that presently are const~tuted in this State, the size of the cities that are involved with these Agencies, how long these individual Agencies have existed, the value of the assessments, property within the area of the Agency and ~/hat their annual tax diversions are, I think that this type of information ~lOuld be in keeping 11ith Mr. Lindstrom's concern. It would also be appropriate information for the Council members to consider before they'make their final vote. And it would be valuable for individual members of the Agency to present cogent arguments as to 11hy 11e mi ght feel and the Counci 1 mi ght, \'lith this information, then agree with us that the Agency should remain constituted as a lay board, rather than going back to,the Council. Perhaps the Council has already asked for such a study. , I r , .1 J=;.2 10-4-71 '. , . ~ . " ~.. . _, ___ ______._ _ L~_ ." '\.. .", ,.;. , ' Page Sixteen - Redevelopment ~Iinutes - October 4, 1'971 Myers: . . I Lindstrom: Hyers! Covington: Lindstrom: " -. " No, I can I t say that they have -- the only' thing that I want to:say is, I don't really know how difficult it would be, from what I know, and that is, that you are somel~hat of a unique agency. Host ongoing agencies use federal funds and their redevelopment in the sense that they are trying to clear housing and things like this and you are not that same kiod of an agency. I could, well, for instance, I have got a plan that was adopted by Corona. originally, if you wou1 d 1 i ke to kno~1 more about agenci es. I',have never found an Agency that \~as similar, Nation,al City, Fresno, Seaside, Ventura -- I have had a very difficult time in th~ past ev~n,finding one that was s imi 1 ar. ' I' Did you ever find one ? I never did, as a matter of fact. I' I am glad to hear that, because Seal Beach has always been unique in so many ways. And for the simple reason that the Agency is originally constituted --what is giving the advantage to private developers and then when it was reconstituted and given over to the citizens that entire philosophy and the redevelopment plan was reversed -- that's why we are unique. I' -........-- - Hyers: Hell, I meant in terms of tax increment and the composition of the project areas. Lindstrom: But ~/e \'/ou1d have been in the same position of composition of project areas if the original redevelopment agency had been allowed to .. cOllti nue. Scheib1auer: Most of them are in slum areas~ aren't they? ~ers: Yes. Lindstrom: ~Jell, old town ~/ou1d have been declared a slum clearance jf the old agency had been allowed to ~n~n~. . MYers: Covington: Well, I guess that you could make the statement that your own plan has in it a specific ,statement that'says'-- that the purpose of this agency is not to condemn property and purchase residential property -- that is one of the express statements -- that's some\/hat different than most, in fact very' differen~. Bob, it my fault, I probably did not make myself very clear. I am certainly not trying to I, -r--; I 1 I .-' ---- , 1- " 10-4-71 " t 1,!:;;3 _, __.. __ ,_________., _..__ L..:= -, . Page Seventeen - Redevelopment Minutes.. October 4, 1971 " I , I "\ I 11yers : Covington: , . . determine or permit or ask for a comparison of ~his agency ~ersus others that are similar tD ~his agency because, as you point out, we ~.,unique and many agencies are unique unto themselves in every area becau~~ they will hmw~ ,unique area local problems, but I was thi~\ing of the basic perimeters that all rede~e10pment agencies would have to exist under or that they, from the very fact that they would be related to and that would be the fact that the assessed' value of the property within the3~ jurisdiction - the size of the city which the~ serve ~ how long they have been in existence and what the annual tax diversion is that they expend, and that those four criteria ~ld be common to all agencies regardless of tf1eNr poli cy and ~/oul d a 11 O~I a more effective comparison of the -- how the Redevelopment Agency here in Seal Beach compares to other d~ age~1es., the:r.e is one other thing I didn't include for ~ ~ecords, is the most obvious, 'and that'is whether or not each agency'is constituted with ',lIay citizen mcmbers of the city council as the appropriate city exists a~ a member of the agency. I ~11 do everything I can to do this, not tnDwtng what response I am going to get -- I have ,down here, size of city, ~opu1ation, assessed valuation of the project area, dollars ,of'tax diversion, and the Agency Board or 1;W people ----- _____' ~ long is this going to take? Do the agencies rave to registered with the State? That might be the source for our purpdse because certain statements have occurred -- ~ li'st of all agencics be ,chartered ? don't they hav~ to )["1'l do ~/hat I can. Wela~ if it is at all possible to come up with an ,of this, or as much of this ,as time permits, pert.aps that report could then be made avail- eDOe to the individual members of the agency pM{)r to 110nday ni ght' s Council mceti ng, pcrhaps e~n'be made available to us with a copy of the agenda. I believe that a couple of meetings back it was established ~hat all members of the agency did recei~e a Co~ncil agcnda. tes. Bln;'we are making this request for this infor- mat~on to be passed on to the City Council so r _L~ . , .. 10-4-71 " J < I Page Eighteen - Redevelopment Mi~utes - October 4, 1971, MYers: . . Covington: Kris Lindstrom: Covington: Kris Lindstrom: we ar.e not in any way violating the normal courtesies that would be involved in the use of privileged information. ' \ Yes, let me get back to yqu in'a couple of days, if J am,ab1e to get it, or not get it so that you ~ti 11 know that, ~/hether it can . be forthcoming within that length of time. Even if not complete, I would certainly like to see something or the most that can be done --- That would help all of us. Now the other thing that I would lik~ t9 ~sk, I don't know if it comes under new business, but I would think perhaps, it would probably be of value to the agency as a whole, or whoever then may take on our responsibilities is., that our next meeting, at our next regular meeting, we could have, from the staff through you, a status report ~/hi ch ~/ou1 d be a current position or status, of conditions or status for everyone of the projects and priorities that have been listed by the Redevelopment Agency as coming under our jurisdication. This would inc1ude.the status of the current obligations, ~'ould be included in that, for the Seal Beach Elementary Schools, the District, Sanitation District, the Southern Pacific negotiations, the participation in request for federal funds for acquisition of some of the property within' the area of the Redevelopment Agency and any other such topics that l'/e might come up with - so that \'/e vlou1d have-a--colllplete last time opportunity to review to date l'/hat the current status I"/as for each of these responsibilities, again towards the legacy. And I'm finished with new business. Any other items? The best part of the agenda nffi"/ comes up -- Oral Communications. Kris Lindstrom,'209 Ocean Avenue. I'm happy to have somebody ,come close, but realize that at our meetings you can still stand at you're seat. This kind of reminds me of our meetings, such a small audience, but your meetings kind of reminds me of the timc that the oil ordinances were repealed and we werc sitting to an empty audience and --- the Director from Standard Oil I"/as there -- as the ,only audience, interests had dropped off. J did have a number of q~estions regarding the progress ,that the 'Agency I , \ I' ____.__L......- '. I I I -'r' I ---.---- - ---- i"-- ,- : .~ 10-4-71 ~~~ : - ~age Nineteen - [eaeve10pment Minutes ~ October 4, 1971 I " ; Covington: Kris Lindstrom: .\ I I I . Covington: . , ~1yers : Kris Lindstrom: I Myers: ' , - . fs ~aking pn the Sewage Treatment Plant, trne School, the,P. E. Right of Way and other tbmmgs but you seem to have brought these ~ - ~ guess. The next meeting will be the 't:mme ,to discuss these I guess, 'out I would Tfl~e to congratulate all of the Agency members for at least being recognized by the Cl!nmrci1.... the Board I'm Chairman of rarely gets ~ecognition. Our things fall on deaf eax!s or are received and filed - so - at least yaw ~re receiving some recognition for your ef.'iliGlrt, one \'Iay or another. , . . Yom ,may be luckY that you're not receiving sud1 'recognition. l' Jlll1IObably will !>e the next vict.im of political lIiltla,cation. I knol'l that I've tried my best to. cilo things for environmental improvement and II1UtiY 'of the things the Environmental Board cGaiA'd be doing" you ~re doing in constituting t~JAgency because I think that the P. E. Right of ~~y is the most environmental importance in to~.. I was looking l'lith great hopes tO~lard tfIle iAgency carrying through and undertaking the pl!'1ll,gress on it. I'm hopir:lg that perhaps this tltLl'iRtd come true. T~k you very much, I'm certain that w~atever ~ ~ounci1 does they will always give us the o~rtunity to participate in the affairs of the ~ity - no matter where we sit,- if we comtinue with that appr-oach,. I'm sure that t!fIrijrn,gs \'/i 11 work out right. As long as peopl e sti]l attend meetings and still have an interest. . 'hl1illlik 'you for comi ng toni gl)t. ' I IW:Onder if I could answer one of the questions - t~.$ certainly one that is a great deal of iiA,~est to hear - and that is the Sewer, pr.~~ct - the preliminary engineering plan was p'r~'ented to the City Engineer for his evaluation on ~e technical aspects of the plan -- it has -yet: ,.to go back for correction to the consultant t~n ,t would be fon~arded to the State to see tv ~t complies with their regulations before EQ~ing back for approval of plans 'and specifications. -. , May J ask, did the grant for federal funding get l'D: (On ,time or did it exp.it'e ? om mo, that was on the agenda some time ago, Kris, thlt was approved and certified so that we kno~1 ,tJDRt'we had approval of our application - nO~1 tfle ,appropriation, when \'/e get the funding - l'Ias Inot been definitely established, its supposed tolbe 1.97,1 - 72. One other qUf::stion, if I might - was - what is our position for federal funding reJVll,r.ds the 1 egacy of parks -- thi s has been a - ,- ,-'- _r. -l:--- , 10-4-71\ ---J..56..::..,_ ,_. I _ , \ :. ;. - - ___". _______--o.__~___ _ .....:...:.... ... . :;:.,. .. .~. }-::-. , -' " , , Page Twenty - Redevelopment Minutes - Dctober 4, 1971 . .. . " , Covington: Myers: " Covington: I r'lyers ! '\ I I cotington: Myers: " Covington: . 14yers: 'Covington: Myers: \ ' --Covington: Scheiblauer: Hyers: , . ~ ... .' real merry-go-round. Those people assured me - and I wrote them a letter requesting that I get the form,'the application by July 1, and they said they'd have, them shortly thereafter. ,I've called them several times and they're not 'available. It's just nothing. That was on more than just the Redevelopment Agency, that included other parks of the City, for development and acquisition. What is this ~hat is not available - the form? ~es, the application, they said they still didn't have the guidelines. . .. , Do you normally have to go through ..- " ~._,. ...... , Yes, the Department of ~Iousing and Urban Devel- opment. ' Local ? Yes, through the L. A. office. When this occurs and they cannot satisfy you, where is the next lever of interrogation, in Washington ? ' Well, this is the office - if they don't have them, nobody does. So, since .we began, I'll follow up on it and hopefully, I'll get it. It'Os pretty sad. ' --- , Is this more than a phiiile-' call , Bob, is this correspondence ? . Yes, phone calls, but the original was documentation,_a direct request by letter. And they said that they wouldn't comply with it, and then there have been more phone calls~ It's very difficult. ' Do you think it might be approprlate at least as far as the Agency is concerned, to make the next request by letter so that they must reply -- sometimes government agencies are less willing to give a negative response on paper than they are on the phone. Because it kind of leaves a more permanent .......... It just a simple application you're asking for, right? ' Yes, but we are doing what we can - maybe I seem a little too critical, because I haven't called for a couple of 11eeks n0\1, but I ~rill call next week again. , " '_.h,L....... I' '. I I r" '.. I ,I I 10-4~7i. - -1 ~7' .' Page T\qenty-one - Redevelopment r,1inutes - Oc:1!:G'tler 4, 1971 Covington: J.1aybe I can jus t reverse the ques ti on, is there any list available to indicate " Iqhether any ethcr communities have had requests gl'unted ? No, but I just menti,oned, \qe're doing what \qe can -- it's just one of those bureaucracy probl ems. ^long with our request for a status report, perhaps we could help you by asklng you to ~Iri te them a 1 ctter in the next fel days, requcsting again, in \'rriting', this form so,that if we get no responsc it wil1,havc to be by letter as well, then we'll have t~at to include in our documentation i~ the status .report for next ~/eek. Yes, that would be on your status report. Do ~/e have a bureaucratic problSil in Seal Beach ? \ ~iyers : Covington: f'1yers: Lindstrom: \ ^11 City governments can be justifiably accused of-some bureaucracy. }~ office can be, I myself can be -- just simply because there are times, unthinkingly, we say we have a procedure established so ne have to follow it".- without thinking that there are exceptions to that. I think that there is a minimum of it here in City government - local government. Undoubtedly I'le get entrenched in our administrative process -~ but we keep it , to a minimum in local government,. and I think that's one of the values of local government. And the reasons is that you can talk to, us ' directly, you know it's only a short trip to! the City Hall -- whereas in federa1 government it is very difficult to talk to people -- we, get direct pressure in city government. But its a minimum here, and I think'~Ie're improving - I really do. On the other hand, lore have ordinances and procedures that we a'so have, to fo110~/. The meeting was adjourned by the Chairman at 8:55 p.m. r-1yers: , -. . '-_.~------., ~.MJA~ 1" ~~- ,~an " Executive Director-Secretary