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HomeMy WebLinkAboutRDA Min 1979-04-23 I I I 4-23-79 3~3 Seal Beach, California Apri I 2.3, 1979 The Redevelopment Agency of the City of Seal Beach met in regular session at 6:45 p.m. with Chairman Weir calling the meeting to order with the Salute to the Flag. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Weir: I will accept a motion to approve the minutes of April 9th. Kredell: So move. Laszlo: Second Seitz: The minutes on page t,.O under oral communications, It says here, Agency Member Laszlo asked for a consensus of the Asency to speak Defore the Conservancy at their hearing on Thursday in favor of thei r pia!! for the Department of Water and Power. Do you want that ~leared? Yes. Can thilt be cons i dere~ a mot i on or is that... You can just make the motion to ask that the minutes be approved as corrected. Mr. !(redell has made the motion tel allprove as presen ted but if you wan t to correct them... Well, I want, I am I~ondering if that is, hew is that interpreted? Secretary: As a clarification--..I will put them in at the direction of the Agency, if no one objects, it will De in. Do I have any objection from the Agency to put in the clari fic.ation--..I~ell, then t:,ere is no need to go any further. You just want it clarified for that eroperty. No, what I want to know, there was no vote on this? Nc:t. OK, then there is no approval of t~e plan then? Right. I thought that you were saying to specify what the plan was in the minutes, is that what you are asking? 0:<, then ~/e should have it say \~hat plan it is. To state for the Department of Water and P':lWer site, then that is what I will ad~. Then I want to make a me t ion. Coes she need a motion? It I~uld be appropriate. I will I~ithdraw my motion if it is okay I~ith the second. '(es, that will be to approve the minutes as corrected. Second. ROLL CALL Present: Absent: Also present: Secretary: Seitz: Secretary: Seitz: Seitz: Secretary: Seitz: Secretary: Seitz: Secretary: Seitz: Weir: Secretary: Kredell: Secretary: Kredell: AYES: NOES: Chairman Weir Agency Members Gray, Kredell, Laszlo, Seitz None Mr. Courtemarche, Executive Director Mr. Co~ghlan, City Attorney Gray, Kre~ell, Laszlo, Seitz, Weir Ilone Motion carried REV I EW OF SRI j;'JAilCE - MR. P.l\UL JEFFERS Weir: Now we have Agency Item Number A, Mr. Courtemarche do you have a report? Executive Director: fIr. Cha i rman and members of the Agency, the gr i evance of P.r. Paul Jeffers should be heard tonight, however one of the requirements is that he receive proper notice. We have been trying to contact Mr. Jeffers, he has been given a copy of the report but he is not here and that would indicate that he did not receive notice in time to be at this meeting and I would suggest that this item be held over until the next Agency meeting so that Mr. Jeffers, for sure I~i II get the proper notice, there was some question I.hether he did or didn't. I would like that In form of a motion. 4-23-79 . ,....jf'. :!~<t Laszlo: Executive Di rector: Kredell: Weir: Executive D I rector: Weir: Kredell: AYES: NOES: DISCUSSION - Weir: Laszlo: Weir: Seitz: I would like to move that we do approve this and what is that meeting? We can adjourn this meeting to make sure that that will be the only agenda item, In other words, postpone it until the next Agency meeting, at the end of the meeting adjourn to the second Monday in May, but a motion to hold over to the next Agency meeting will be fine. I will second that. Second meeting or first meeting? Second meeting is fine. Okay, do I hear a second. I second that. I Gray, Kredell, Laszlo, Seitz, Weir None Motion carried DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND POWER PROPERTY Okay, Number B, discussion of Water and Power property. Mayor Laszlo I think you have the first comments. I think Mr. Seitz requested this. Okay, Mr. Seitz. My primary reason for bringing this up again Is because this is a development within the city limits of Seal Beach that will effect our community tremendously, there is money involved, possibly through the issuance of bonds and I feel that there should be more discussion and attention paid to this particular proposal. I don't know if any of us know specifically what is going in. front of these commissions before they go. For example, there is something being proposed to go in front of the Coastal Commission and the Conservancy is going to speak on our behalf but I am not sure that I have any information specifically Indicating what they are going to tell them for us. So, I feel that before anything goes In front of any commission or apply for any grants or we are represented then we should approve a plan and review the. plan just as if the city came to us and said 'we want to purchase new equipment or we want to estab- lish a new plan'. There are certain financial impacts, there is a certain community impact that I think we, as a governing body for this city have an obligation to pay attention to. We have given approval to go out and find an appraiser and that was one of the conditions apparently for getting the grant. I don't see that it Is necessary to go in front of the Coastal Commission at this time considering that we haven't talked about getting the property or negotiating for it, we haven't gotten the grant, we don't have a definite plan for this property. Some or the things specifically that bother me are, well, lets talk about the finance. That one page report about the finance. Okay we talked about capital costs, 3.7 million dollars, this does not include the land. We talked about operation and maintenance and public service, $800,000 annually. $800,000. Do you guys know that the whole budget for our whole Parks and Recreation doesn't run over a million, we are talking $800,000 annually. I think that that is completely out of line. To take care of the D.W.P. (means P.E. R/W) it only costs us about $25,000. Okay we go on down here----we talk about restaurants. $157,000 a year they are suggesting as revenue income, that means they have to gross about 2..6 from two restaurants. I don't even believe that Levitz in Huntington Beach grosses that much money. We go on down here and talk about public investments which come to 2..05 million dollars but we look back up at the top of this fact sheet where it says park and public develop- ment costs and we have 4.5 million and that means about a 2..45 mi"11 ion dollar difference. Where is that money coming from? If we float bonds for that, how long are those bonds going to be outstanding, are they going to be long term or short term? We already have a 4 million dollar bond debt out right now that maybe this year we are going to have trouble making the interest and paying the payments. These I I 4-2.3-79 3~5. I sort of things should be answered before we go along rubber stamping this proposal that has been made. Maybe they have some good answers, but if they don't have some good answers, I think that it is the obligation of the staff and us and the Planning Commission and the Parks and Recreation Commission to start reviewing this thing and come back with, yes we understand it, It is right, it can be done, 01" it cannot be done or this would be a detriment to the city or not. If we go back here into this report that apparently was presented as a staff recommendation to the Conservancy Board. We go in here and talk about a thirty bed hostel for people to come in here. Alright, ~/e are griping a:>out bus loads of kids being bussed in here from Long Beach and they are impacting the area and there is graffiti and trash and stuff, this here is just an open advertisement for low income and kids to come intlJ town. I/hat do you think that they are going to do to that park? It talks also in this report .3bout a ba it and tacl<l e shops for the types of shops on there, fishing rental and 5Uf'fll ies, bicycle and roller skate surfaces and rentals, the snack shop. ;,/e have got a snack shop dO\oIO here, we havl~ got two or maybe three places to rent 1'011 er skates a 1 rl~ady in tOlrlO, we have an ord i nance against roller skates in certain areas of the town, we have a bicycle shop, and why do we need a fish and tackle shop down there, ~/e must have at least three of them in tOlm and every liquor store sells bait. I think that these th i ngs need to be d I scuss,~d and asked about. I t says a variety of recreational facilities are provided on the site in order to attract and allaN for intensive use by many different kinds of uS'~I"S. ~hat??? What a general statement. We talk about a i.11 mill ion dollar CEIP loan, well how long are Vie going to have to pay Oil that loan, how much are we going to have to flay on that loan? And that is part of the 2. mi 11 Ion dollars that we are Sllpposed to be getting in funds from outside agencies, well it looks like most of that is comins from a loan, so we are not going to be obligated for bonds we al'e soing to be c,bll~ated for a loan. And then we talk about a sigllificant portion of low in::ome housing on thl! Hellman property. I don't think that it is in our best interest to sell off or sacrifice that land for this land O\ll!r here, maybe there is another option that can be explored to get this ar,pro\lal. I know the Coastal Commission isn't too hot on housing drlWn there in that area. Another thing, we talk about a youth hostel, I am looking at the tentative p I an for ",'here the youth hostel Is, it Is ",'ay back in the back corner. Now we need, and people have adffiitted that there is city clubs, organizations and groups that want to use this old pol ice bui lding anl~ it is going to cost us a least 3/4 of a million dollars to get it in shape. If we consider using part of this cultural center for those shops or for those meet i ng reoms, that is someth i ng tha t wi 11 definitely relate to this police department here that we are that we are trying to figure out what to do with. If we do ha'/e an area ~/here jJeople meet for -::lty clubs or for social occasions, I don't know if It would be a good idea to have it way back in the corner over here, why shouldn't they have nice meeting rooms with a big picture windO\~ that they can see out? Have you ever walked out on the pier and tried to sit and look at the panorama, you get I:ind of cold and windy out there, some of our senior citizens aren't going to walk out on that darn old cold pier. If we had a cultural center I~ith a panorilmlc view then they could possibly sit inside a room for se:lior citizen activities, card games, and thin9s of that nature, they ~/ould be a lot nO)re comfortable than hev i ng to sit baek in the corner- where a 11 they wou I d do is sit in a square room like this with no view or nothing. It is'just like in the library here, there is no view there, I mean YOLl can coole in there and meet but it \~ould be nice if there were'" little more ~'anorama and a 1 ittle more protection from the wind. I I 4-23-79 3~6 Weir: Seitz: Weir: Gray: Executive Director: Weir: Seitz: Laszlo: Weir: Weir: Seitz: Laszlo: Brand: May I interject something. Well, let me finish and then you can all blast away. No, we aren't going to blast away, I just think that you are a little ahead of yourself on calling for discussion of Water and Power property ana I think that perhaps probably we could be here all night on this thing. Mr. Courtemarche is there anything that you can say and tell this Redevelopment Agency on how the progress of this is and if Mr. Seltz is ahead of himself on this thing: I am going to rise to a point of order Mr. Chairman, Councilman Seitz has the floor and he has a right to continue with his discertation without interruption. I I have nothing to say~ Nothing to say. Okay. I have gone through most of It and each one of you have some kind of grievance with this plan, but the point is, when are you going to say something. Alright now relating to the Convervancy, the people that put it together and held the workshops had an obligation to their managing agency. We fulfilled that obligation, we have also aliocated funds to start the ball rolling. I don't think that we need to go any farther without some kind of Redevelopment Agency approval, decision or recommendation on this. And with that I would like to suggest that before the Conservancy approaches any more agencies that we have definite and explicit informa- tion with regard to what is going to be done and how it is going to be done. Perhaps before we make a motion to approve this plan we send it to our staff for review and send it to our Parks and Recreation Commission and Planning Commission for review. I am not sure that this outside State Agency, I am sure they are a very competent agency, has the insight to our zoning problems and our finance problems and how much revenue we are having coming in and our policing. Like the lagoon suggested down there, are we talking about another lifeguard, that is not in the budget, there are a lot of things that I think that should be discussed and I hate to see the Redevelopment Agency circumvented with something with so significant an impact on the City. Now. I am not against the 70% park and I am not against the 30% commercial but I am not going to close my eyes and let it all go around me and come up before me with all the grants and all the money and all the approvals and then have to say no and start allover again, that does not make any sense at all. I am going to recommend that we adjourn and then reconvene and come back. We will adjourn the Redevelopment Agency at the moment and give it to the Mayor for the opening of the Council meeting. I It was the order of the Chair with consent of the Agency to recess the Redevelopment Agency meeting to the City Council meeting at 7:04 p:m. The meeting reconvened at 7:05 p.m. with Chairman Weir calling the meeting to order. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Mr. Seitz do you have anything more to add? I have talked enough now I will sit and listen and let everyone else talk. I wonder if we could ask Mr. Brand to maybe come up and answer a few questions that I might have and maybe some from others. I believe that you have heard some of the concerns of our Redevelopment Agency and I just wonder if you have anything that you would like to report. Many of Mr. Seltz-----should I identify myself for the record? Peter Brand, State Coastal Conservancy. Many of the concerns that Mr. Seitz mentioned have been brought up in conversations with me arid in lengthy discussions about the plan. Some of them I haven't heard before but most he described very articulately In the letter to the Seal Beach Journal I 4-2.3-79 3'7:7- I published April 18th and those kind of com~ents are just the kind of refinements and comments that ~'e were expecting to get from the Redevelopment Agency members and certainly the kind of refinements that they have and particulars that they will want to incorporate in the final plan. What has happened just recently, since the last time I was here is that the Conservancy Board approved the plan in concept in a level of detail which the staff recommendation that you saw. In a similar level of detail the submittal will be going to the Commission tomorrrn~ with no other significant positions or comments from our Board to the Coastal Commission and the State Division a month from now, let's see four \~eeks from now in hearing and six weeks fro~ now there will be an action hearing on May 3Qth, we will act on that restoration plan. It is a conceptual plan, that is the hardest thing to explain the way the Commission works here, in fact the Commission is just gettiog used to what a Conservancy restoration plan is. Mr. Weir was correct In saying you were getting a little ahead of yourself because there \~i 11 be, 'of course, six weeks during which we will be meeting with your staff and will be going over the details of the plan, And then there will be another Redevelopment Agency meeting where you will want to devise those refinements to----as comments to the Commission, but they still are only going to be approving the concept and when specific development proposals, when the park, the cultural center, the hostel, the convention center, all those aspects of the plan are actually going to be developed, a permit will go before the Commission, so, at first it is conceptual approval but down the road a ways \~hen those refinements ,~ill be argued with the Coastal Commission and we are hoping we will have heard some of those arguments !>efore they approve the concept but they wi 11 wa it unt i I they get that permit application before they decide that everybody is right. Before closin1, if there are some changes that we find out, for example that instead of 14 condominiums of 42,000 square feet there should be 20 at 2.200 square feet or if it should be, let's say, there should be a lawn bowling area or something like that as Mr. Seitz suggested in the plan, but that is not the kind of detail that \~e are looking for first, that will come later on in the permit process. There are a number of confusin!l things about the financing that are explained in the final report that we just got from Rubel and Udell and I gave a copy of that to Nick Romaniello today in kind of rough form, it is being retyped this week for the f i na I pub I i cat i on and that wi 11 answer a number of ~r. Seitz questions. I should point out I guess that is not new information to the workshop and they have waded through all of that and answered most of their own questions about the financing. Very quickly, so:ne of the questions Mr. Seitz had in his letter, the plan does not propose any bond financing and does not expect that the city will have to do anything like that, the ::ity \~ill indebt itself for the CEIP loan, you could choose within the plan as recommended and that is one of the details of the loan forgiveness option and the payback schedule that will be worked out in detail with Denis Themas and Dennis Courtemarche this week to the extent that we can present it. Now sane of the things that Mr. Seitz mentioned that go a little bit into the conceptual plan, they are major changes, would be in relocating the cultural center and I don't know whether he is recommending elimination of the hostel or simply different placement of it or some reassurance that it is not going to be just another transients rooming for Seal Beach and the same thing----wel1, those are the two major recommendations that I think shouldn't. if you really do want to change the location of the buildings or major land uses then on May 15th before the State Commission hearing and on May 30t~ before they act, they would want to hear those major changes. The statement about the low income housln1, I am a little confused by that and I guess there our staff recommendation is a little confusing in mentioning the Hellman and Rockwell I I , ,- ,4-23-79 }l'ifR Laszlo: Brand: Laszlo: Brand: Laszlo: Brand: property, there isn't any connection, it is just that the point"that we were trying to make is that the Redevelopment Plan points out that the coastal district, 62., the immediate service area of this proposed park and recreational area, 52% not including Trailer Park of the people in the area are "low and moderate income and according to redevelopment law and what it looks like will happen to the L.C.P. I suspect some low and moderate income facilities to meet that demand that is obviously there in the coastal district, - where if you understand It Is maybe 60% low and moderate, some of that demand may have to be satisfied on the Hellman- Rockwell property too, we don't have anything to say about that, we don't have any control over it and It was merely mentioned as being, this area is needed more as a park than it is for low income housing as it will be serving recreation needs of those residents in the coastal district. We want to forestall any accusations that we are not considering that possibility as well as anybody else of those of us who attended the workshops, so J think that that is all that I have to say right now, there are a lot of questions that Mr. Seitz brought up but Mr. Weir I don't know if you want me to go on with that or not. I would like to ask a few questions, one item, I understand that one of the points that may receive a lot of resistance is this hostel, do you think that the plan could work without the hostel? Well, maybe I could state it from a more positive standpoint first and then----the hostel Is in there for a number of reasons, mainly because the workshop participants saw it as a compliment to the park site and an attraction for the grant funds from the State and Orange County and because it is a perfect place for it, I have heard that statement from people who are very familiar with the bike trails in the area, they are aware of the demand" for something like that there, and I understand that the bike trails are coming from various areas of Orange County and certainly some people want to stay overnight, families and such that will use those bike trails and Boy Scout troups and such that want to stay overnight at the site rather than biking another 2.0 or 30 miles back to their home somewhere else in Orange County, back to Santa Monica or wherever the possible site is. So it i's really to be seen as serving the family group, primarily bicycles and can easily be accommodated with the financing of the plan, in fact it is kind of shoved off into a----as far as being a prime part of the site it is kind of shoved in one of the worst locations because it is next to the bike trail so it is convenient In that sense for the hostel users and it is also a strong policy coastwide that this will serve recreational facilities and as low cost as possible be made avai lable. I have a few questions now, we are talking about this plan, number one, this is going to go before the Coastal Commission and evidently is going to go before it more than once, is that right? Yes, there are three hearings, the first one is merely discretionary on the Commission's part and has no official status and that's next Monday the Regional Commission will be hearing it and May 15th the State Commission will be hearing it, May 30th the State Coastal Commission will also be hearing down here in Orange County and it will be decided whether they like it in concept and then in the months later, again later when the specific development proposal comes in it will be in------of a permit except that it would have had almost a, if the plan comes in and it is detailed------ it will breeze through with virtually no problem. Well, I think that the Council wanted the options, shall we say to give our input on this and what I am really trying to find out is, will we be able to make some changes at this next hearing, this first hearing that is just coming up? Certainly. I I I Laszlo: Brand: I Laszlo: Kredell: Brand: I Laszlo: Brand: Laszlo: Brand: Gray: I Brand: Gray: Brand: Gray: Brand: Gray: Brand: Gray: Brand: 4-23-79 3'?-:)" For example I mentioned hostel and maybe fishing and also I think some up here might like instead of a lagoon a little playground instead and I think that this is our concern, one of our concerns anyway, this thing, can we make some sort of changes in this? As I said when I began, those kind of refinements that Mr. Seitz put in his letter to the extent that they don't reverse everything that the workshop has been working towards and had consensus on, are exactly the kind of refinements that we are looking for or that the Commission will be looking for when they review the plan. Yes it can be changed. If you want to make major changes In the land use we would suggest that that be eventually voted on and if possible worked back through the citizen action committee which is sort of a condensed version of what the workshop participants, and presented to the Coastal Commission on the ;Oth of May and I said you know, it is even, it is certainly inherent In the whole process that major changes or minor chan;es might be made a3ain after that before the permits are final. I have to agree with Mr. Seitz about having our Planning Commission, our Parks C~nmlssion, the ~nvironmental Quality Control Board to examine it and I would hope tonight that we can give the commissions directions to study It, but anyway--- I don't have anything. I think that the reference to low cost housinS, I think It Is mandatory ~hat a certain allotment of moderate low cost housing has to be developed anyway for any subdivision ,~ithin a certain distance, as required by the Coastal Commission, so I am sure that you people, I interpret it the opposite way that Mr. Seitz interprets it, I am sure that you people didn't say that we are going to hand you more low cost houslng....1 think we could work to change low cost to affordable housing, there is a certain amount that we do have to have and I am sure, I would like you to repeat again that this has no bearing on that at all. It has no bearing, we can't make deals or suggestions on the kind of trade offs that will have to be made on other sites in our addressing this particular plan, I~e are simply trying to address the need of a whole area as it relates to the site. Can you leave that phrase off before the plan goes before the Coastal Commission? It is out----the phrase as it is is not in it. I twas m,.de before your Agency though, but you wi 11 not put it In when you submit it t,) the Coastal Commission. No reference to the Hellman-Rockwell property, there is a reference to the number of low and ~oderate Income people who 1 ive I~ithin a certain distance of the area and want to use it as a park. It is pretty well known that my primary interest in this whole project, and I have purposely stayed out of the detailed discussions of the project as it was looked over by the ad-hoc c~nmlttees, my interest has ~een that there should at no time ever be a burden upon the taxpayers of the City of Seal Beach. I have to stand on that basis. My concern now is whether or not your Conservancy might be railroading through the various committees and getting us into a position where we will almost be forced to accept the burden of some kind i~ order for us to acce?t those grants. I would like to have you explain to me why if nothing of any consequence is going to be done to the full concept, why is it going before the Coastal Committee next Monday, why if it is only advisory? The State Commission would like to have advise of the ~egional Commission. Acivlce on what? On ~Ihat they th i nk of the plan. Well, in the first place the City has not approved the plan, are you going to say that the City has approved the plan? Absolutely not. Will they be told that the City has not approved the plan? If you wish we could certainly say it, it is stated---- Will you be honest about it? Well, it is not that, it is inherent in the State law that you could not have approved it, what it calls for in our Act 4-2.3-79 2'11 Gray: Brand: Gray: Brand: is something that I explained a couple of weeks ago before the Redevelopment Agency, Is that it is presented formally to the State Commission and it is presented formally to the City, and the one case for an action, if the State Commission takes an action, in the case of the City where the local implementing agency for review and possible implementation. Okay, what the State Commission Is doing is giving the city a very clear idea of what, if the city should go that way with the public project they would prefer to see, the city will have within that time and even after the State Commission approves the conceptual plan an opportunity to reverse it, not implement it, but what it does is give a very clear idea of how you can plan for that property and its, the Commission appreciates that opportunity to see that much information on the place and that much...... so that they are aware that this process has been going on for four or five months instead of, you know, with numerous public hearings, a great deal of input, a number of presentations before the Redevelopment Agency, there is going to be several more meetIngs with the city staff and they are aware that, what the Redevelopment Agency feels about this, you don't have to go into anytning exclusively, you simply agreed to do the appraisal and they realize that even after they approve the plan the City has to come back with a specific request....if they want to follow the plan the way it is. Your reason for going before these commissions before the City has approved the plan, I suppose that there is some good reason for that, but I haven't found out yet what that good reason is. Now, in your presentation at the last meeting you said that if we did not reach certain agreements and request certain grants, to make application for certain grants, those grants would disappear, it would no longer be available to us. That could be one of the reasons why you are believing now that it should go to all these various agencies, certainly the Coastal Commission, once, twice, three times, the Coastal Commission then approves the concept, but even then they will approve the concept before the City of Seal Beach has agreed that they are going to spend any money or bond themselves for this whole concept. Well that is correct, they are just approving the concept, and it is conceivable the Redevelopment Agency will have decided at that point to block funding. Let's assume that Mr. Seitz gets support enough for some of the things that he is concerned about and that actually the site is greatly changed, for instance, maybe this Agency will decide that that piece of property cannot support two million dollar restaurants, that would mean that we would wipe the restaurants out, one or two. Now suppose that we don't want the hostel, we wipe the hostel out, suppose we don't want the fishing pier, we wipe the fishing pier out, well by the time we got through wiping out items it seems to me you have a whole new concept to take back to the Coastal Commission and I am wondering what you then have gained by you having gone with a concept that the City of Seal Beach has not yet approved. Is It the time factor, is that what we are after? Yes sir, that is, the main thing is the time and I think that certainly; don't consider it unreasonable, but given the time that has been taken with this planning processes, that as far as major land uses being approved by the Redevelop- ment Agency, that you are necessarily being overly quick in setting up this schedule with the Coastal Commission, it is essestial that those things fall in sequence in order for the plan to be implemented as is, as it is constructed, I mean I would have like to, by the time we had finished the plan, the Coastline Program Loan had a much longer deadline but it just so happens it doesn't. There is a funding source in Orange County that we are applying for that, which is giving us until May 1st. It would be quite unfortunate if the Redevelopment Agency would reverse what everybody in the workshop had agreed upon and changed the major land uses, it would certainly, there is enough time for it, certainly, it could be presented to the Coastal Commi ss ion..... I I I Gray: I Brand: I Gray: Brand: Gray: Brand: I 4-2.3-7S 3~1- I appreciate that a~d I would be the last one to try to interfere with the plan, but, as far as I can find out, you have not yet come up with a definitivE' financing plan for this whole project and it is almost impossible for me to sUl=port somE'thins that is theoretical, has no basis, it apparently has no past experience behind it, no guarantee that someone wi II e.ver \~ant our ~estaurant there, for instance----dcn't you think that before the city goes much further with this thing that we. should have from you or from some~ne else who makes such a study and, we can make it, I am not too s~re but that we could make one that would probably be just as good as the one you have got from past experienc.e and In talking with planning people. 8~t sooner c,r later ar,.:l I would say sooner, we should have all those definitive figures and proof that what YOll have suggested and what has been rec."mmended by this great amount of work that has gone into It, 5omebody has got to say, this is f i nanc i a 11 y f eas i b 1 e and here i 50 ~,hy ~'e know it Is f i nanc i ally feasible, not just saying we think it 15 going to work, bec.ause the people that c:'re~J t~e plan do not have to pay for it. This Agency has got to find a way to pay for it. Our position is entirely different than the folks that sat there so many hours and worked over that plan, completely different. It Isn't a matter of us providing something that is nice it is a matter of us providing somethinij that we CCln afford and It has to be that ~Iay. So if you are hearing for the first time that we are much concerned about the plan from a standpoint of being self-suppol'ting It is only because this is the first time that we have ever been asked. You are absolutely right, Mr. Gray, and I was sort of reluctant to be here tonight because I was sort of hoping that this wouldn't come up on the agenda tonight because you don't have that final plan with all the finites and documentation, all the statements of whe'"e we....... And n01lJ that brings me to a very important question, and why haven't we had them before this. VOll had to have those figures before you could tell the peol=le this plan is self-supporting. Why haven't we had those figures? We have been revisins the final document, I11c,king sure it was in shape so thilt i t ~IOU I d make, sound to you..... \Ihat Is your interpretation of the peoples int.erpretation of ~Ihat a hostel is? Tell me, as they rJiscu5,sed it in the meeting, what is the hl1stei? I.'ho is going to use it? Will it pay for it, will It be self-supporting, ~,ho \~ill clean up after the people that spend the night there? Tell me a little bit about a hostel. As I was saylns in terms of the financing, I Absolutely agree I~ith you Mr. Gray and it is essential before the Redevelopment Ilgency can decide if they support this plan. That final plan is in sort of rough type form and is now in the hands of your city staff and they 1~111 be reviewins vei'y closely among yourselves and with myself this ~Jee:" a~d Ilit!'> the economics consultant and I am sure that they will be able to give you a greal deal of advice about whether they think what we say wi 11 work out, particularly from a standpoint, in the eyes of the city, and that is the kind of advice that I know y')U need and I am sorry, and I am sorry that it couldn't have been ready two weeks ago or a month ago or six weeks ago but, as I say most of that information was handed out at various forms during the workshop and was clarified when we attended the economic task forc.e meetings so it is not completely new to the Redevelopmen: Agency or those of you who attended those meetings or ~o the people of Seal Beach. A hostel is a very old concept that has been very successful in this country and in Europe, wl,at it means is low cost overnight accommodations for people who are usually on a recreational tr i p th i s is the way it "Jas understood by the peop 1 e I n the meeting. There are several hostels being developed along the Pacific Coast adjacent to t~e bicentennial route, Orange County happens to have a much more extended system of bike trails that really needs this kind ,)f a support facility. .,..~ 4-2.3-79 "<119".' V.<;(... Gray: Brand: Gray: Brand: Gray: Brand: Gray: Laszlo: Gray: Weir: Seitz: Laszlo: Brand: Laszlo: Seitz: It is primarily to groups, it is primarily for famil ies, it is low cost....... Is it a hotel, a motel??? What is it? No it is sort of a cross between a hotel and a bunk room faci 1 ity, I mean it is modest but it is intentionally so, for people who are on the.'..... And if we built one would we lease it to someone to run? ...........the American Youth Hostels Incorporated, they would charter it and for the usage they would find a person or a couple that would act as house masters and they would run it. Recent studies have confirmed the fact that they consistently pay for all their own expenses and often add some to the area. One of the especially nice additional benefits of having them there, well they offer some control as far as security goes and they do a lot of the clean up and operational maintenance on the site itself. Okay, I don't want to delay this any longer, I would just ask the Agency one thing and that is, do you believe that when this proposal goes before the Coastal Commission it shall go before the Coastal Commission as a recommendation by the Coastal Conservancy and that the Coastal Commission shall be told in no uncertain terms, no equivocation, plain language that this project has not yet been approved by the City of Seal Beach. I don't think that you need argue the point but I think they have a right to know that this project has not yet been approved oy the City of Seal Beach and they should not be acting upon it now considering It on any other basis" not yet approved by the City of Seal Beach, which is a true statement is it not? Yes sir. Then I would like the Mayor, I would assume that It would be the Mayor, to see to it that someone Is appointed to see that that statement is made to the Coastal Commission next Monday. What is the statement that you want? I want them to know without any question, this is a fine concept developed by the Conservancy for the health of the people 'of the City of Seal Beach, but it has not yet been presented to nor approved by the City of Seal Beach, the Redevelopment Agency of the City of Seal Beach. Any other questions from the Agency. I will support that because it is the simple truth. One other thing that I would like to ask of Mr. Brand, rumors have it, and I say rumors because I don't have anything to say otherwise, that this appraisal that we are going to get has gone up, maybe from 4 or 5 thousand to in excess of $10,000 maybe even as high as $15,000. .Before we stick our necks out for the $15,000 of which we may just have to put out of our pockets if this whole thing doesn't fly, I would like to see a report from the staff in regard to the financial soundness of this proposal so that atleast we have a feeling for how far we are sticking our neck out and I think that that is a reasonable thing to ask. As you said, It has already been put together, it should be available to the staff and to us for review prior to this question, if it should rise, which I think it will. I have a question, after the Coastal Commission approves it, and the State and It goes on with these approvals, can the city still change its mind and say hey we don't want any part of this. Yes. So as far as sticking our neck out, J don't know how far you want to consider sticking it out, we did, there are, let's put it this way, I heard Mr. Seitz say that he likes the idea of six,and a half acres of park and two and a half acres of commercial development, Is that true or...... I have no objections to the park and to the commercial I think it is possible if we, if for no other reason if we decide that. that Is the percentages we want we can negotiate to buy and just sell our lease off that last 30 percent and pay for the park any old way that it comes down to us. But what I am worried a little more about is what is going on, I don't, there is no way that I could see the hostel be Deneficial to this city, monetarily or socially. We are going to lodge I I I I Laszlo: Seitz: Laszlo: I Weir: Seitz: Weir: Secretary: Gray: Seitz: Gray: Weir: Gray: Seitz: I Laszlo: Gray: Brand: 4-23-79 ,.3~3 people, son of a gun, make some money out of It, it couldn't be any more detrimental than the people Just riding into our town and using our beaches and facilities for nothing and leaving little. Yeah... it bothers me. A lagoon....there must be something better than a lagoon there, I mean we have got two miles of beach that has a breakwater, not heavy wave action, we have got a river on one side. I am not against the concept of 70% park and 30% commercial but we hollered a while back a whole lot a~out commercialization of the pier and making it Into a three ring circus, another Pike, we hollered a lot about bringing the kids in from Long Beach by bus load after bus load after bus load and we have come up with an ordinance against roller skating in the city. I think that we have got to address these things, we have got also to consider what we are going to do with this darn police building here and at the same time we are discussing a cultural center. Because if we are going to build a nice cultural center out there there is no reason to spend any money on this thing here, spend more on that. So, those are my prob 1 ems, I don't want to get dO'tln the road and have all the funding set up and all the grants approved and then say well, we don't want a hostel, so all t~e bottom falls out and we have to start from step one again. I thInk it would be better to give good direction now of what we do not like and what we will not accept then we don't have to back- track so much. So, yes I agree ,~i th the percentages and the park use, it is just the ..... How about the cultural center? I think that could be functional. Anyway, what I am trying to point out is there seems to be agre~nent that we should try and get, shall we say, the parksite there and this seems to be, '~ell, this has been before us for many years, and finally we are able to do something about It. There seems to be some problem with the hostel, yet one of the concerns is that we don't even know what a hostel is, we don't know if it is self-supporting, you don't know anything about the funds so you want to throw it right out, a little prematurely too. An)'Way, I don't know what we are trying to say but \~e are trying, this thing can be changed and it is necessary to get before the Coastal Commission for some direction and I 'think that the Conservancy has a little bit more idea what now the Agency feels, and also can be changed and I don't know ~,hy we are tr'fi ng to slow all of th i s down. Any other questions? Mr. Brand is still waiting for any more if you have any more questions. , Are we going to adjourn I~ith Mr. r.ray's suggestion about..... It has already been done...... it'll be the Mayor. No, not for the record. It is not clear for the record, Mr. Chairman. It was not my intention to ask the ~nyor to go d~~n there, just have the Conservancy make a statement..... WrItten correspondence from the Citr Manager..... Make the statement..... let's don't fly under any false flags, that's my point. In other words this is a direction for Mr. Srand, right? Well, it ought to be a direction from this Agency to somebody. I think it should be direction to the City Manager, he can take care of the correspondence, a simple statement of our position, neither in favor nor against it, just a statement that this proposal has not yet been approved by the city. Right, this proposal has not yet been approved by the city, is that alright? I don't think that can hurt too much, but let's not have them feeling that--oh, the city has already Investigated, we know where we are going to get the money and all the rest of that, we must approve it for them. We should not put them in that position. Well, the Regional Commission is not going to have any say about that anyway they are just goIng to be passing on comments to the State Commission, however at the hearing on the 30th you may want to be more explicit about that and, I 3..~-!:, 4-23-79 Weir: Executive D I rector: Gray: Laszlo: Weir: Brand: Laszlo: Seitz: Laszlo: Brand: Laszlo: Seitz: Brand: Seitz: Brand: Laszlo: City Attorney: am trying to think of the appropriate way whether it's a cover letter, we will mention It, I will ask Mr. Petrillo to mention it before the Commission if that is what you want. Does anybody object to that? Mr. Brand do you need anything other than a direction now and if I remember correctly, you said that you were going to meet with the staff in a very short length of time. Mr. Courtemarche has heard the conversa- tion tonight and I think he knows direction of the Redevelopment Agency and at that time I think that thing could be handled very well, both of you are here and both of you have heard what the Redevelopment Agency has said. I Excuse me, I am not clear, if this Agency wants to direct me to write the letter indicating to the Commission that the city has not approved that, I would prefer that as a direction from this Agency and that is all that the letter will say and I will provide you copies before it goes to the Commission. I am not sure that we want to seem to be a wet blanket on it; I didn't want to go so far as to indicate then that there Is dissentIon In the cIty as to whether it is going to be approved but they certainly have a right to know that the City of Seal Beach has not approved the concept. I don't know how you are going to get it to them, but certainly if I were on that Coastal Commission I would want to know if this has cleared all the hurdles in the City of Seal Beach includIng financing and all the rest and they won't know that unless somebody tells them. Perhaps we could say that the City has not had enough information, therefore we have not approved the plan, or approved the concept. Is that enough for you Mr. Brand? Yes sIr. I know that you are anxious to get along but I just want to say it sounded like the idea of a chance for a wor~ing session between the...... I was going to make the motion to give direction to the Planning Commission that they study the project and perhaps in conjunction with the Parks and Recreation Commission and as Mr. Seitz requested so that 'they can give us their Input, if that is alright with you. Most definitely. Do I need a motion on that or..... It can be done with the Citizen Action Committee, Mr. Laszlo, either separately or a public hearing or however that sort of thing..... I just thought that, in my est imat ion a few changes at the Coastal Conservancy would make their presentation to the joint Planning Commission and Parks and Recreation Commission and let them give you the same questions that we're giving you and then they can give us "the i r input, does that sound okay. I would 1 ike to see a separate paral,lel review and recom- mendations to the city. I would, just as soon not have the Coastal Commission come In and say this is what we are going to do and we are going to do this and we are going to do 'that, like they did when the presentation was here and they are going to walk off. I say give the plan to the Planning Commission and let them handle it any way they feel fit, just as you would any other proposal, just as we did with the Edison Triangle and just as we did with any other project that comes before the city. Fortunately Mr. Seitz you are lucky enough that it isn't just like every project that has ever been done. Oh year, I know. It has a little more input from your citizens. Do we need a motion on that or will they take the direction? I I I think that you should have a motion referring the matter to the Parks and Recreation and the City Planning Commission asking each to report to the Redevelopment Agency as soon as possible. I I I 4-23.79 ' ,.., 3R5 Laszlo: I wciuld like to ask Ilr. Romaniello if he has any objection with the Parks Comrdssion meetlng in conjunction with the Plan:'ling Commission at the same ti,ne, I~ould that hinder your operat ion? Romaniello: I don't think that the Plan:1ing Commission I~ould object to a joint meeting with the Par'~s and ~ecreation COr.T,lission. Laszlo: Then I \iould make the motion that there would be a joint meeting then and give us their usual report, ; would like to make that r.lot j 'J.' and do I have a second? Tom Blackman: Romaniello: Executive Oi ret.:tcr: Weir: Laszlo: Secretary: Kredell : Weir: B I ackma.1: Seitz: Blackman: Seitz: Blackman: Gray: Brand: Blackman: !~r. Mayor before you f i n<l 1 i ze the ques t i on I \iOU I d 1 i ke to address the Agency if I might. I would I ike to knoli if you would 1 lke tha'~ conducted at a pu;' Ii c hear i rig or lihat? They could use their Jlscretion. I would assume that. Is that all you want fro,r. IIr. Brand? Yes I think lie wi 11 still be arcunJ for a re\i n:lnutes anyway, just in case. Is there a second to the r,lotionl missed it if there was. I Iii 1'1 second it. ' !lCli we can discuss th i s farther. Mr. Mayor, member of the l\gency, Tom 31ackrnan, 421 Beryl Cove'i/ay. I really don't I ike to see you get ir1tO a position that you are getting Into. ile ha~e several If'y areas that you are going to be presenting to the Coastal Con1r"ission. In this time of bureaucracy and il'l cO:1celved plans it doesn't mean that this plan doesn't have some merit but to go before a Coastal Commission without having a formal vote of the Agency is sending sor,1ei)ody in in front of us with no real direction. Just tonight here the discussion ;'as indicated that the plan as presented is not whole heal'tedly supported by the ,I\gency. The fact that the ci ty has yet to come up with an appraisal for the property Indicates that there has not been ..de~uate financial thought go into it. Therefore it seems that \ie are sendin;! the plan to the Coastal Commission but when the( hear I t presented it is go i ng to sound 1 i ke it is cor,ling from the Ci ty of Seal Beach. I don' c know how the C'Jas ta I Ccmrr, i ss i or. could even th i nk abou tit even if the Redevelopment Agency said that I,e are not really sure about what we are sending here to th~n. So you are going to run into some difficulties. The people of the cunmunity as a whole has already indicated some resistance to parts of the p I an and the'f have not been consu 1 ted as a I~:'O 1 e as to \~hether or not they would support what is being presented to the Coastal Commission from the City of Seal Beach or from the Coastal Conservancy which is actually ~crking for the City of Seal Beach. I de have a couple or questions that I \iould like te ask '~he Mayor or the City Manager. Is .he total "rice'.-is it a capital outlay is that what, some- thing like 3.7 million dollars for the capital outlay on this project? Ckay, we were given a one page breakaown and It says Department of Water and Pal\ler Site Froject, it says park snd public development costs and it says capital costs, 3.7 million. This is no site acqulsitiun. That's a point well taken when we talk about capltal....it is real or it is..... Could I clarify that, is there some.body here that knows if it includes site acquisi'tlcr. or if it Is just the development cost. . No, the man who sent us the report will answer. Yes. The~ this does Include the site acquisition. Okay now, one othel" item here I would just li~e to address myself to and t;'at is the applying fer grants. We really need to have as a city sometbir.g defini te drawn up so that the organizations such as the state or' federal groups, we need to have something concrete draw~ up so that they know what they would be spending the money for. I just can't Imagine a State or federal bureau accepti:1g t~.e "Ian that has been prese;.ted here to:1lght and at the last meeting, accepting that plan and glvin3 the City 389 4- 2.3-79 of Seal Beach any money. So until you know more about what you are going to do and the Agency has approved it, sending for grant money seems to me a waste of staff time and a waste of city time. To send the Coastal Conservancy up to the Coastal" Commission" in a situation I ike this would indicate to me if we were sitting on the Coastal Commission that somebody hasn't really done their homework because one of the th i ngs that he 'i s go i ng to have to say is that well, the City of Seal Beach isn't really sure if this is what they want but we are presenting it to you as members of the Coastal Commission and it would really seem to me tonight that this issue should be postponed, that the Coastal Conservancy should not rush up and make a presentation that they may have to back peddle on but that this other work, the sending to the Planning Commission, the Recreation and Parks Commission, all these other official city commis- sions should be able to take a hard look at this first and then possibly the Agency would see their way to ask the people of Seal Beach if they approve of the final plan by possibly a vote. That'would be up to the Agency whether they wanted to do this or not. But to send the Coastal Conservancy up there to the Coastal Commission under these conditions I feel it is really wasting the Coastal Commissions time, the city time and everybody else until It has cleared our standard commissions and committees that are set up for this purpose, they really need a chance to take a good hard look at this. They know what you are up against, these city commissions and the volunteer committee has done a good job of presenting their ideas but how it fits into the city it is going to be up to the city' body sitting here tonight. So, I would recommend that this action be postponed tonight if at all possible. Weir: Thank you for your suggestion. Is there any other discussion from the Agency? Laszlo: I think that we have a motion on the floor, about submitting it to the Planning Commission and the Parks and Recreation Commission. Secretary: I have a motion and a second that the Planning Commission and the Parks and Recreation Commission hold a joint study session to study the plan and report to the Agency and I wi 11 specify what the plan is. Weir: Question. AYES: NOES: Seitz: Weir: Seitz: Weir: Seitz: Weir: Kredell: Laszlo: Seitz: I I Gray, Kredell, Laszlo, Seitz, Weir None Motion carried Okay, now I would like a clarification. We have one more thing, do you want to be here all night? Well,......we are still on this topic so I might as well get rid of it..,.the rest of them are going to fly, you know that. Okay, a point of clarification. What did we exactly do with regard to presenting the city's position in regard to this plan. Did we give Mr. Brand direction to speak for us? He is not under obligation to do anything we say. Did we give direction the the City Manager to present to the Coastal Commission a letter or something stati'ng.... Not to my knowledge. Then we didn't do anything. We made a motion that 'we were going to, what was It $5,000...1 Frank made the recommendation that Mr. Brand tell the Coastal Commission that there is some question that the city has about the plan, it is not a total final plan. That the City has not approved the plan because we haven't had the figures and other data, that was more or less it. What I want to know Is, is the city, or the Agency through the City Manager going to take this position or are we going to slough if off on Mr. Brand who is not really obligated to do anything we say, not that he won't do it, but..... We passed a motion that said that Dennis Is going to submit to the Coastal Commission stating that this Redevelopment Agency neither opposes or supports this plan and that it has not been approved at this moment......that is what we voted I I I I Secretary: Seitz: Laszlo: Seitz: Weir: Seitz: Executive Di rector: Laszlo: Executive Director: Weir: Seitz: Gray: Weir: Kredell: Gray: 4-2.3"79 3~ on, that was the motion? No. Okay, what have we done? The Redevelopment Agency has not okayed the plan yet as we have not had all the data, that was the jist of it. I want to know specifically what we are going to do, are we going to say that, is Dennis is going to send the letter or are we not going to send the letter? ~ennls and Mr. Brand are going to meet with the staff, as I understand it, and the entire thing was going to be discussed and,they were both given direction which was it I~as that the Redevelopment Agency was not.... Do you understand what to do? I think that the position of the Agency is clear and I have no objection to that discussion but I think that it is important that it be noted that what Mr. Seit~ is suggesting either be put in letter form or that someone from the City, the City Manage~ or his representative, present that position to Coastal Commission at their hearing on the 30th, I think that should be more definitive than It has been to this point. Then would you, I suggest that a letter that the city has not acted on....1 don't want to use the word acted, given final approval to that plan because we don't have the final data, by letter.... Risht, what I will do is to the satisfaction of each and every member of this Agency, is to read a draft of that letter prior to sending it so that everyo:1e knows \~hat is being said. Is that a motion? I will make that motion. I will second. Question. First of all I really think that if Peter Brand could express the ~lshes of this Agency just as well as the City Manager. I don't think that we need to have our city involved one bit, and I askec the City Manager to represent us at the Coastal Commission on the hezring of sand and for some reason at all he couldn't make it, or forgot about it or something, he was, he didn't even represent us on opposing Long 3each's sand on a State level. I would just as soon see Mr. Qrand represent the.....he has had the in?ut from us up here, he knows that the plans, the final plans have not been submitted here and he knows that we don't have all the details, I think that he can express it to the State Coastal Commission as well as a letter can. I hear what you say Mr. Kredell but I am also aware that when this thing went before the Conse~vancy, you, Mr. Laszlo and ten or twelve other people went up and appeared before the Conservancy and presented a very fine case in favor of this project even though the Agency had not even seen the project. 11I0\>/ the letter that I have, the invitation that I have from the Conservancy inviting me, and you received the same thing, to come to that Commission meeting on April 30th states specifically that at that time the public testimony will be taken, the Commission will discuss the plan and make advisory recommendations to the State Commission for their review and action on the plan at subsequent hearings. The State Commission must take action on the plan within 60 days after submittal and here is the important thing, persons wishing to testify on this matter may appear at the hearing or comment by letter to the Commission prior to any action taken, you may submit written comments of any length or testimony May be limited by the Commission. H~' what I am saying is that I have a pretty good idea that the same group that went up and sold this plan so vehemently to the Coastal Conservancy is going to be right down there selling the same thing over again to the Coastal Commission. Mr. Brand will only be just one spark in the conflation that will hoped to be started there at that time. It just seems to me that we should see to it that the Coastal Commission knows in no uncertain terms hm~ the Agency feels e~actJy about this issue 4-2.3-79 SSg Seitz: Gray: Weir: Kredell: AYES: NOES: Seitz: Kredell: Seitz: Brand: Weir: and it is that this Agency has not yet acted, you don't have to give-any. reason for it, the Agency has not yet had the plan and the Agency has not yet acted upon the plan, the Agency has not yet approved the plan, and the Coastal Commission has a right to hear those words from somebody. I would say that the City Manager ought to be the man goes down and tel rs them r'ight in. the middle of the rest of the discussion. Well, I don't know if he should go down there I think that a letter would simply suffice, he has a busy day and a letter would say the same thing. ' Okay, now vote. Question. Is this on the letter? I Gray, Laszlo, Seitz, Weir Krede 11 Motion carried Okay, one last Item. Apparently there is going to be applications for grants submlttea to various levels of government. Are we going to be privileged to review and have input or approval of those grants before they are submitted or will they be submitted independent of Agency action? The reason I ask is that most grants are specific. I wish Mr. Seitz that you had attended more of these meetings and I am not being....but you would have had a lot of this information from the meetings and I think even excluding the meetings a lot of it was brought out here before that they would work with the city and in conjunction with acquiring grants if we did approve the plan. I believe that that came from the Conservancy right up here. All you have to do is say yes we have to approve them before they go. Yes Mr. Seitz, you are right. The point that Mr. Seitz brought up is one bureaucrats like myself and others are more interested in than some, but he is absolutely right, and yes 'it will be, and that is one of the things that will be...... and the grant application form that I gave to Dennis this afternoon and one of the things that Mr. Courtemarche and I will be discussing this week and certainly, absolutely, the city has to rule on that, the grant application. Before you leave Mr. Brand, are there any other questions besides Mr. Kredell. Thank you very much Mr. Brand. I DISCUSSION - MEETING WITH MEMBERS OF SEAL BEACH SCHOOL DISTRICT Weir: The next item on the agenda is a discussion and meeting of the Seal Beach School District and there are to be two members appointed, I think that everybody on the Agency has read th i s ,-report, and there are to be two members from the School District and two members from the Redevelopment Agency whoare addressed to meet, and I think that since there are only three on this Agency that have children so that may I suggest or may I ask Mr. Seitz If he would attend that meeting as an apporntee and Mr. Kredell. Execu t i ve Director: Weir: Weir: City Attorney: Weir: Laszlo: Excuse me, I will make the arrangements and then get in contact with each Agency member regarding the time of the meeting. Very good. Now that is the end of the three items that we had on the agenda. I Mr. Chairman, prior to your getting to oral communications, I would like you to recess to Executive Session to discuss litigation and that Executive .Sesslon to take place at the same time as the City Council ,Execut'ive Session takes place, and then thereafter you can adjourn. At the end of your oral communications your motion should just be to recess to Executive Session to meet at the same time the Council meets this evening in Executive Session. Very Good. I was going to ask for another meeting of our Agency at our next Council meeting, which I am sure that we are not through I I I ORAL COM~UNICATIONS Weir: Any other oral communications? Rita Wheeler, Seal Beach Trailer Park: I Seitz, for weeks you have sat didn't even blink an eye when the Seal Beach Trailer Park. Mr. Chairman, I am going to rise to a ~oint of order, I think it is completely out of order for the audience to be talking directly and chastising members of the Agency, I would like to have you control the meeting, please. Very good, yes sir, I think that the conversation that you are about to take off with Is unnecessary, we have had an hour and a half of this and I think it is unnecessary. Well, I do have something to say and I illtend to say it. Sit down. I will not sit down. Yes you will sit down, you will go over there and sit down. Mr. Chairman, may I interpose again please, my intention was not to stimulate this type of a confrontation but to ask that she address the Chair. Whee 1 er: ." Thank you Mr. Gray, than~ you. Your concern th i seven i ng is appreciated but it seems that there was not that concern whell we were questioning the situation in the Seal Beach Trai ler Pari<. which is directly across from your area, Mr. Seitz. I am just saying for myself, speaking for myself, that I feel it would have been a~preciated if you had been verbal in a positive manner as far as the negative things that were happening in the park. I\nd Mr. Gray, ycu mentioned taxpayers money, yes that is very true, but there are many people in this city that don't realize how much taxpayers money Is going into each space in the Seal Beach Trailer Park. That is all I have to say concerning that. I just have one question to ask, I don't know if this is in order or not, I wanted to bring it up before, I a~ concerned about parking areas in the Seal Beach Trailer Park. Being that summer is coming and many people flocking'to our beaches we now have inadequate spaces and I am hoping some way that you people on the Agency and the City Manager could possibly put up some type of reserve signs along with tickets for those of us that live in the park so that when we come home from work our spaces will not be filled with visitors. Rita, I asked the City Engineer about it before this meeting. He didn't give me any answer, but possibly you could check into it here he gave me one possible alternative but I think that we could possibly find a better solutioll, that is the parking down on Marine, no not Marine, Marina Drive there by, that would be in front of the Marina Lanai, I guess, but that is a little too far.... For people in the Trailer Park? ,Yes. Well, many of us sometimes come home from work at 11 or 12. o'clock at night and then there are older people in the park that.... Executive Director: Weir: Seitz: Secretary: Seltz: Secretary: Seitz: Secretary: Seitz: Secretary: Gray: Weir: Wheeler: Weir: Wheeler: Weir: Gray: Kredell: Wheeler: Kredell: Wheeler: 4-2.3-.79 3 ~ R~ with this project and there will be other information so I would like that.... You can do that~hen you get back from Executive Session. Now we are daNn to oral communications, and you have got an oral communication. I would like, with Agency approval, to ask the City Clerk to pre~are the minutes exactly as they have been received and not in abstract form. I don I t knO\~ what you mean. I want actual transcript of this last meeting so that there will be no misunderstanding. Of this meeting? Right, is that...... Of this meeting, yes, it is time consuming so you may get the.n later, is that alright? Yes, that is alright. It takes about a day and a half to get it out. Okay. am amazed at you tonight Mr. here and said very little, situations cropped up about : . ,~. 4- 2.3-79 33::> Kredell: Wheeler: Kredell: Wheeler: Weir: Gray: Wheeler: Gray: Wheeler: Weir: Mrs. Sassie: Gray: Sassie: Gray: Executive Director: Weir: Yes, that is what I mentioned to him so, so I asked if he could possibly find another means and then possibly if Mr. Dawson said that the Trailer Park wouldn't fully be developed for another year and a half, possibly he can give us four months that we could park in the Trailer Park, I can't see why not if they aren't doing anything out there, they certainly wouldn't get in the way of any.... There is an area there between Oakwood that they could certainly clear for those of us that are there. Well, maybe we can give directions to the Redevelopment Agency Gary, and have them check into it and Dawson, I mean, on the property. Thank you. Publicly I would like to thank Mr. Kredell and Mr. Laszlo for your work and your concern; thank you. There are no other oral communications we will adjourn the Redevelopment Agency----recess it to the Executive Session at the tall end of the Council, meeting. Mr. Chairman, I would like to respond to Mrs. Wheeler. Mrs. Wheeler I appreciate that statement you made that we were unaware of funds that were being expended, that you thought rather foolishly in the Trailer Park, may I call you and have a personal interview? Yes, thank you. Are you listed in the phone book? Yes I am. Let's recess. I May I say something please? I am Mrs. Sassie of 2.10 - 7th Street, my car was vandalized last night and when I went around to look at it and then go back to call the police then I was ticketed. Okay, I went up to the Police Department and gave them the ticket and asked them I wou~d like for them to come down here before I pay this ticket and also look at the car and the insides before I....... Now, a request was made to here to the Police Department or what was the request? ' Yes sir, last night or this morning, I don't what, my car was vandalized, okay I go out to get in it this morning and it's still sitting out there so by the time I get back to the house, I even put a note on it, by the time I get back to the house and get back to the car I think that I had double trouble then because there Is a "ticket too. Okay so I go up to see Mr. Lewis to ask him to please come out and Investi- gate it and then I will pay for the ticket, but I think that then right there I have been having a little bit of double trouble. I think that you got double trouble too. Mr. Courtemarche can you handle that one? I I will talk to Mrs; Sassie in the morning. Thank you. Now can I adjourn the meeting---recess it I mean. It was the order of the Chair with consent 'of the Agency to recess the meeting at 8:15 p.m. until the end of the City Council meeting for a joint Executive Session with the City Council. EXECUTIVE SESSION The Redevelopment Agency met in Executive Session with the City Council at 9:2.3 p.m. The meeting reconvened at '10:03 p.m. with Chairman Weir calling the meeting to order, The City Attorney reported the Agency had discussed litigation matters in Executive Session. I ADJOURNMENT It was the order of the Chair with consent of the Agency members to adjourn to Manday, May 14, 1979 at 6:45 p.m. The meeting adjourned at 10:15 p.m. I I I 4-23"79 3.:'1,1 Chi?, ~(.J.1Ji.IiJU ...