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HomeMy WebLinkAboutAAC Min 1997-09-17 . CITY OF SEAL BEACH ARCHAEOLOGICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE ADJOURNED MEETING MINUTES SEPTEMBER 17, 1997 CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Johnston called the meeting to order at 5 30 P,M, in the City Council Chambers ROLL CALL Present: Goldberg, Fitzpatrick, Willey, Young, and Chairperson Johnston Also Present. Lee Whittenberg, Director of Development Services Absent None . APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION by Goldberg, SECOND by Willey to approve the Agenda as presented MOTION CARRIED: 5 - 0 - 0 AYES' Goldberg, Fitzpatrick, Willey, Young, and Chairperson Johnston NOES None ORAL COMMUNICATIONS - None CONSENT CALENDAR - No Items SCHEDULED MATTERS I Approval of Minutes Continued Meeting of August 13, 1997 Member Goldberg indicated she arrived when Ms Hahn was speaking on page three, and that should be noted. . MOTION by Willey; SECOND by Goldberg to approve the Archaeological Advisory Committee Minutes of August 13, 1997 with the correction as noted C \My Documents\ARCHCOMM\09-17-97 Mmutes doc\LW\1O-13-97 ArchaeologIcal AdvIsory CommIttee Adjourned Meetzng Minutes September 17, 1997 . MOTION CARRIED. 4 - 0 - 1 A YES' Goldberg, Willey, Young and Chairperson Johnston NOES None ABST A1N Fitzpatrick 2 Approval of Minutes: Regular Meeting of August 6, 1997 MOTION by Goldberg; SECOND by Willey to approve the Archaeological Advisory Committee Minutes of August 6, 1997 MOTION CARRIED 4 - 0 - 1 AYES' Goldberg, Willey, Young and Chairperson Johnston NOES None ABST A1N Fitzpatrick 3 Review and Consideration of "A Research Design for the Evaluation Of Archaeological Sites Within the Hellman Ranch Specific Plan Area", Prepared by KEA Environmental. Revised and dated September 1997, . Chairperson Johnston introduced the matter Member Goldberg said she thought KEA's report was outstanding, it tried to answer everyone's questions, She asked Mr. Whittenberg how he felt the questions submitted by staff were answered? Mr Whittenberg said KEA did not respond to everything in a manner he had totally hoped to see, But they addressed the major points Some of the things they didn't address were things like "It would be nice to have some drawings of some of the unifaces and bifaces and those things are" He thought that might come in the investigation report rather than the Research Design. Overall, staff is quite pleased with the document Reviewing the comments by the Peer Review Archaeologists, staff feels KEA did a fairly responsive job in dealing with those comments and concerns Obviously, not every archaeologist is going to agree with everything all the time There are still differences of opinion but, that's not unexpected Mr Whittenberg further indicated the City Council changed their scheduled meeting dates and will consider this matter on October 27, 1997 If the Committee would feel more comfortable in taking additional review time it would be all right He suggested the Committee could continue the matter to their regularly scheduled October 8, 1997 meeting In response to a question from Member Goldberg, Mr Whittenberg indicated the City Council will still consider the Pinal EIR and the project approvals on September 22 . 09-17-97 Mmutes doc 2 ArchaeologIcal AdvIsory CommIttee Adjourned Meeting Minutes September 17, 1997 . Chairperson Johnson referenced Dr. Erlandsons's comments on pages 45 and 46, She was pleased he was sensitive to this issue adding, "We don't want out sacred sites and burial grounds disturbed We're for preservation. We're not for mitigation...". Chairperson Johnston added she had reviewed most but not all of the material. She was pleased, therefore, that the Committee would continue this matter to allow completion of her review MOTION by Willey, SECOND by Young to continue this matter to the regular Committee meeting of October 8, 1997 MOTION CARRIED' 5 - 0 AYES: Fitzpatrick, Goldberg, Willey, Young and Chairperson Johnston NOES: None Chairperson asked if any members of the Committee had time to review the document, and if they had any comments, Member Fitzpatrick said the plan to go at the site was quite good. They said they are going to introduce ground-probing radar and infrared technology Those are the latest tools and that's what we wanted to hear. He was quite pleased with the report, . Member Willey said she was pleased, for the most part, with what she read However, she did not have the time to study it and that makes her uncomfortable because she was not sure she had the whole picture In terms of what she read, the answers to the questions and the incorporation, she was uncomfortable with the comment from Hellman Properties on page 90, regarding Comment and Response G9-5, The sentence needs to be revised to reflect the current revisions in the EIR First, the EIR identified ten prehistoric archaeological sites that may be impacted by development of the ten sites She believed four sites were determined to be important, not seven sites The response to that was the text has been edited as suggested, The text was edited and she didn't like it Her discomfort stems from the fact that SRS made the determination of importance and she was not comfortable with their interpretations The literature research was fine, but she was uncomfortable with their interpretations She would prefer the Research Design say that the EIR. identified ten archaeological sites that will be impacted by development, It's up to KEA to determine the importance and the significance of them She didn't believe there is significant information on the six remaining sites Member Goldberg asked Member Willey if, by changing that sentence that way, if the AAC was saying the development is going to have an impact on all ten sites? . Member Willey said yes, if the development goes as proposed - grading for the golf course, building of homes along the bluff It will impact them all Until the exact depth for grading of the golf course is known it's hard to say All that needs to be explored beforehand, and according to KEA it will be done 09-17-97 Mmutes doc 3 ArchaeologIcal AdvIsory CommIttee Adjourned Meetzng Minutes September 17, 1997 . Member Willey referenced page 94, noting one of the responses on the remote sensing was confusing, G9-22 states that the ground penetrating radar would only be used after excavation if the first phase shows useful results She thought the remote sensing would be first. She asked for AAC comments if she had misread that comment Otherwise she was extremely pleased with the document, as they seemed to have answered all the comments within reason, and covered the majority of the various questions and comments that were applicable In response to a question from Member Fitzpatrick, Member Willey said obsidian hydration is actually on a very solid footing. Every area has hydration rates, which have been well established for the Southern California area because the technique was devised at UCLA in the 1960's. Her thesis and dissertation advisers at Penn State was a large part of his dissertation She is very comfortable in the rates of hydration, and the dates that have been established through hydration The Committee had further discussion on hydration rates, the technique itself, and the impact of various climates on hydration rates COMMITTEE CONCERNS . Member Goldberg asked if Lisa Bosalet, representing the Naval Weapons Station, was notified? And, would the AAC be getting together with her for the walkover tour? Mr Whittenberg indicated that matter will be on the next agenda for consideration, Member Willey said that since the Council was going to consider this matter to October 22nd, she assumed the AAC's delay on their consideration would not affect things Mr Whittenberg said the requirements of the Archaeological Element of the City's General Plan require staff reports to be given to the City Council two weeks prior to their meeting, Therefore, staff will be giving the Council their packets on October 10th There is a conference and three of the Councilmembers will be in San Francisco on October 13th Staff will have the packets prepared and will insert whatever actions the AAC takes before sending the packets on, The Council has had the Research Design and the Response to Comments the same time as has the Committee Member Goldberg asked of AAC members should submit questions/comments to staff prior to October 8th to see if answers can be obtained? She would hate to think the AAC would come to a standstill on October 8th because it had too many unanswered questions Member Goldberg said the document looks fine, and she would be ready to vote on it today, but she can understand that other Committee members have not had time to read it . Mr Whittenberg replied that could be accommodated 09-17-97 Mmutes doc 4 ArchaeologIcal AdvIsory CommIttee Adjourned Meetzng Minutes SeptemberJ7, 1997 . Member Fitzpatrick said he didn't think any of the Members had seen ground-probing radar He asked ifKEA could demonstrate this to the members? After discussion among the members of the Committee, Mr. Whittenberg indicated he would contact KEA to see if it is possible to set up a demonstration for the Committee Member Fitzpatrick said he found no reference as to whether the infrared photos of this area have been found or purchased? Mr. Whittenberg indicated the City has written to the person who conducted the analysis, but has not received an answer to the letter. The Chair said the Native American community and other non-Indian supporters were very nervous about the beginning of this development Basically because of what happened at Bolsa Chica and Newport . Member Fitzpatrick said some compromises would have to be made and asked if they were in a compromising mood? The Chairperson said no, and she thought she had made her position clear. Member Goldberg asked the Chair if the other tribes were coming around to compromising? Chairman Johnston said she didn't know because she hadn't had any contact with them She said "I don't know what you mean compromise I need to have some clarification on that word" Member Goldberg said "What I mean by compromise is that everybody is going to have to bend a little bit in order to make a pleasant transition from raw land into developed land" She wondered if all the facts were out on the table, if people were able to communicate to see what they could work out. Chairperson Johnston asked if she was talking about if remains were found? Member Goldberg said she wasn't talking about anything special, just in general, a broad scope She said she is aware of how Chairman Johnston's part of her tribe feels about the area Chairperson Johnston said she lives in a home which someone built. She was not opposed to building places for people to live. In this society people are not accustomed to living off the land like her ancestors were, She thought the golf course was better than building homes on the entire site But, as far as burials are concerned there is no compromise She said she could not speak for other members of her tribe or other members of the Native American community STAFF CONCERNS - None ADJOURNMENT MOTION by Willey; SECOND by Young to adjourn to the Regular Meeting, and start the regular meeting at 5' 3 0 P M . MOTION CARRIED 5 - 0 AYES. Fitzpatrick, Goldberg, Willey, Young and Chairperson Johnston NOES: None 09.17.97 Mmutes doc 5 . . . ArchaeologIcal AdvIsory CommIttee Adjourned Meetzng Minutes September 17, 1997 ~~ ~hairperson, Archaeological Advisory Committee Note, These Minutes are tentative until approved by the Archaeological Advisory Committee. The Archaeological Advisory Committee Minutes of September 17, 1997 were approved on Oc.rCJ~ 13 ' 1997, 09-17-97 Mmutes doc 6